Eat carbohydrates and still burn fat!

Paul Kayley · 03-09-2006, 03:35 PM

In Lyle McDonalds Ultimate Diet 2.0 he states -

"When glycogen is depleted carbs go to glycogen synthesis first,and energy production second. This effect lasts for 24 hours, or until glycogen is restored to normal levels. That means that, for short periods, you can eat carbs and continue using fat for fuel"

This pertains to the following study:-

http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/full/548/3/919

Glycogen hungry exercise rocks for fat burning - eat carbs and still burn fat. Keeping lean is then just a case of roughly matching carbs in vs. carbs out, eating enough protein, and balancing fat consumption relative to current body composition aims.

Steve Liberati · 03-09-2006, 08:03 PM

Be careful, you might get crucified around here for posting anti-Zone sentiment.

All joking aside...it looks like a worthy piece.

After I get done finishing my oats and protein shake ...I'll take a closer look at it.

thx

Jesse Woody · 03-09-2006, 08:11 PM

Wait...isn't the Zone 40% carbohydrates? Seems like losing weight while eating carbs to me... ;)

Needless to say, there are also some practitioners of the cyclic low-carb idea here too, I think Robb is amongst them (or has been, from time to time)

David Ingersoll · 03-09-2006, 08:49 PM

This is all pretty clearly explained in NHE (natural hormonal enhancement), which has you eating large amounts of carbs two meals per week.

You basically eat a limited amount of carbs for four days, thus depleting your glycogen, and then gorge yourself on them on the final meal of your fourth day. You then restrict carbs again for three days, only to force feed yourself carbs on the last meal of the third day. The cycle then starts again for four days, then three, then four again etc...

The theory is that if you deplete your glycogen by restricting carbs, by the time you finally eat some carbs, they will preferentially go toward muscle glycogen rather than liver glycogen. The former can only be used as fuel by the muscles, so they cannot contribute to fat gain. The latter, can be released from the liver as glucose through glycogenolysis, and then stored as fat via insulin.

It's all nicely referenced in NHE, and although many of the studies are done on rats, and therefore not optimal, he makes pretty convincing arguments.

Jesse Woody · 03-10-2006, 04:12 AM

Also, keep in mind that NHE took quite a bit of information from the Metabolic Diet by Dr. Di Pasquale. You can find this book, along with his other work here:

http://www.metabolicdiet.com

Garrett Smith · 03-10-2006, 03:56 PM

The NHE gorging plan didn't work for me at all, then again, I was consuming a whole bunch of foods that I now know don't agree with me back then (ie. dairy, gluten).

Now, I can imagine that finding low-GI, paleo-friendly (non-dairy/grain/juice/legume/etc.) foods that total 100+ carbs (while staying under the proposed fat/protein limits) in one feeding is quite a task to ask of one's stomach.

That diet felt even more contrived to me than the Zone diet does, and also very hard to fit into a semi-normal lifestyle.

Taha Mohamedali · 03-10-2006, 04:50 PM

NHE sounded pretty convincing to me too, however i found it really hard to implement, I found myself always waiting for the carb load, then often times I'd eat bad carbs. I do prefer the zone favorable approach. I have been doing a little extra carb here and there when I workout for longer. I found that being precisely on the zone doesn't take into consideration my carb needs and enough glycogen replacement, which leads to sub par workouts. So, when I feel like my body is tried and weak, I'll up the carbs at one or two meals, allow for some glycogen replenishment and then be ready to go. I also subscribe to the 4:1 carb:protien thing on some longer duration workouts, since insulin sensitivy is higher immediately post workout, I can shove in some simple carbs, plus a little ribose and it gets nicely shuttled to my muscles and I'm ready to go again within an hour or two....

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03-09-2006, 03:35 PM	#1
Paul Kayley Member Profile: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: York North Yorkshire Posts: 195	In Lyle McDonalds Ultimate Diet 2.0 he states - "When glycogen is depleted carbs go to glycogen synthesis first,and energy production second. This effect lasts for 24 hours, or until glycogen is restored to normal levels. That means that, for short periods, you can eat carbs and continue using fat for fuel" This pertains to the following study:- http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/full/548/3/919 Glycogen hungry exercise rocks for fat burning - eat carbs and still burn fat. Keeping lean is then just a case of roughly matching carbs in vs. carbs out, eating enough protein, and balancing fat consumption relative to current body composition aims.

03-09-2006, 08:03 PM	#2
Steve Liberati Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pennsauken NJ Posts: 1,649	Be careful, you might get crucified around here for posting anti-Zone sentiment. All joking aside...it looks like a worthy piece. After I get done finishing my oats and protein shake ...I'll take a closer look at it. thx

03-09-2006, 08:11 PM	#3
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	Wait...isn't the Zone 40% carbohydrates? Seems like losing weight while eating carbs to me... ;) Needless to say, there are also some practitioners of the cyclic low-carb idea here too, I think Robb is amongst them (or has been, from time to time)

03-09-2006, 08:49 PM	#4
David Ingersoll Member Profile: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Montreal Quebec Posts: 46	This is all pretty clearly explained in NHE (natural hormonal enhancement), which has you eating large amounts of carbs two meals per week. You basically eat a limited amount of carbs for four days, thus depleting your glycogen, and then gorge yourself on them on the final meal of your fourth day. You then restrict carbs again for three days, only to force feed yourself carbs on the last meal of the third day. The cycle then starts again for four days, then three, then four again etc... The theory is that if you deplete your glycogen by restricting carbs, by the time you finally eat some carbs, they will preferentially go toward muscle glycogen rather than liver glycogen. The former can only be used as fuel by the muscles, so they cannot contribute to fat gain. The latter, can be released from the liver as glucose through glycogenolysis, and then stored as fat via insulin. It's all nicely referenced in NHE, and although many of the studies are done on rats, and therefore not optimal, he makes pretty convincing arguments.

03-10-2006, 04:12 AM	#5
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	Also, keep in mind that NHE took quite a bit of information from the Metabolic Diet by Dr. Di Pasquale. You can find this book, along with his other work here: http://www.metabolicdiet.com

03-10-2006, 03:56 PM	#6
Garrett Smith Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,264	The NHE gorging plan didn't work for me at all, then again, I was consuming a whole bunch of foods that I now know don't agree with me back then (ie. dairy, gluten). Now, I can imagine that finding low-GI, paleo-friendly (non-dairy/grain/juice/legume/etc.) foods that total 100+ carbs (while staying under the proposed fat/protein limits) in one feeding is quite a task to ask of one's stomach. That diet felt even more contrived to me than the Zone diet does, and also very hard to fit into a semi-normal lifestyle.

03-10-2006, 04:50 PM	#7
Taha Mohamedali Member Profile: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 99	NHE sounded pretty convincing to me too, however i found it really hard to implement, I found myself always waiting for the carb load, then often times I'd eat bad carbs. I do prefer the zone favorable approach. I have been doing a little extra carb here and there when I workout for longer. I found that being precisely on the zone doesn't take into consideration my carb needs and enough glycogen replacement, which leads to sub par workouts. So, when I feel like my body is tried and weak, I'll up the carbs at one or two meals, allow for some glycogen replenishment and then be ready to go. I also subscribe to the 4:1 carb:protien thing on some longer duration workouts, since insulin sensitivy is higher immediately post workout, I can shove in some simple carbs, plus a little ribose and it gets nicely shuttled to my muscles and I'm ready to go again within an hour or two....