Dead Lift vs. Back Squat

[Matthew Estes]

If you have properly proportioned over-all body strength (the ideal a.k.a. Plato's Forms) -

What is the idealized ratio for dead lift to back squat strength?

X : Y ????

[Matthew Estes]

BTW, I am specifically asking this question because I had a conversation with a trainer today regarding quad. dominance and ham. dominance, as well as the possible injuries that can result from muscle imbalances.


Thanks!

[Jared Grisham]

what a damn good question. I'd be very interested to learn the ratio myself.

[Nick Gagnon]

The strength standard that comes to my mind is a 300/400/500 of bench/squat/deadlift, so I guess the ratio could be about 1.25:1 of deadlift/squat strength. Powerlifters usually can get the ratio close to 1:1 with specific training.

[Matthew Estes]

The commonly taught ratio between quad strength and hamstring strength that I know of is approx. 2 : 3.

I am specifically asking about squat : dead lift because obviously there are many more muscles involved than just quad and hamstring.

I am curious as to the answer in terms of ideal ratio (GPP, CrossFit, etc.)

[Corey Duvall]

This does not answer your question, but it my take on muscle imbalances. Perhaps it can be applied to your conversation.

When we perform functional movement with ideal technique muscle imbalance does not occur. Our bones have an ideal way to move based on the length of the bones, the specific abilities of the joints, and the movement required. Our muscles move those bones and in order for the bones to move properly the muscles must all fire or relax at exactly the correct time. When we move abnormally the muscles are not firing at their ideal time and as such, we have what can be described as muscle imbalance.

When we look for muscle dominance we are referring directly to the muscles' ability to create a force and this is measured in a laboratory. When doing so we look for how much force a quad can create, or a hamstring can create. This is often done on a machine that isolates the movement and directs where the force is applied. What the laboratory does not take into account that life does are moment arms. A moment arm is the ability of that muscles force to move a joint. When we are squatting properly, the hamstrings are working on both the knee and the hip. The quads are working on the knee, and one of the quads is also working on the hip. When moving properly, the force and moment arm for the quads and hamstrings are moving the joints properly and there is no muscle imbalance. When moving improperly, the force and moment arm for opposing muscles are not equivalent, the joint absorbs abnormal stress, and injury in imminent.

Remember when talking about quad and hamstring strength that the most commonly used method of determining that is the knee extension and knee flexion machine. This does not take into account the ability to move a joint. The hamstring also moves the hip joint, one of the quads also moves the hip joint.

Different foot placement, bar placement, etc causes different stresses along the joints, requiring different force production of the thigh muscles to produce safe movement.

[Matt DeMinico]

I dunno, but the "huge" powerlifters I've seen have had higher back squat numbers than deadlift. I'm guessing it's a grip thing, I dunno.

[Tom Rawls]

If you go to this site's FAQs, you can look at Mark Rippetoe's "barbell standards," which provide benchmarks for lifts. You can see squat and deadlift standards on the lifter's weight and experience.
A quick look suggests deadlift is 15%-20% greater than squat.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf

[David Aguasca]

for powerlifters who squat more than they DL it's often a "gear" thing more than grip...squat suits work very, very well, while suits in the DL are not quite as effective.

[Steven Low]

Dips and DL and generally stronger but if you push it to the extremes then bench and squat will overcome them..

300/400/500 bench/squat/deadlift is a good goal to aim at for the average person looking to get strong.