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Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

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Old 09-26-2012, 08:23 AM   #11
Adam Fisk
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Paulo Santos View Post
If what you are doing works for you, then stick with it. I don't understand why you'd want to come here and try to change everyone's mind. Most people here like to eat clean, so the Paleo or Zone Diet works very well. 15% protein is very low for most people, especially if you want to add muscle. I prefer 30-40% protein. And counting calories isn't a bad thing, especially early on so you know how much you are eating. Most people tend to underestimate how much they eat and can't figure out why they aren't losing weight. And it also works the other way around, where people trying to gain weight aren't eating enough.
I agree with what both of you are saying. Although I support Darryl more.

For myself, I started out with the zone which was great. It was a great way to monitor how much food I was eating in a day, my macro nutrient ratios and calories. But it is by no means perfect.

However, once someone has become familiar with how they respond to a specific quantity for a daily intake they will need to adjust if its not optimal. Not everyone who is on X prescribed blocks is eating at optimal levels. What I mean is, for some, there may not be a specific amount of blocks that provides enough energy to maintain strength and conditioning while improving body composition (I know this is not a zone discussion but its helping me make my point).

You really need to experiment with different levels of macro nutrients and find that balance. It is something that takes time. I believe counting calories stunts that progression. If one is too focused on eating under 2k calories a day they may be sacrificing those extra fats and a little extra protein that would ultimately be beneficial.

Just my two cents. It's what I believe in and I have been progressing well.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:19 AM   #12
Paulo Santos
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Adam Fisk View Post
You really need to experiment with different levels of macro nutrients and find that balance. It is something that takes time. I believe counting calories stunts that progression. If one is too focused on eating under 2k calories a day they may be sacrificing those extra fats and a little extra protein that would ultimately be beneficial.

Just my two cents. It's what I believe in and I have been progressing well.
I eat a pretty strict Paleo diet whether I'm on a cut, maintenance, or bulk. My percentages are pretty much average 35% protein, 30% carbs, 35% fats. The key is to have all three at every meal, including snacks. So the only thing that changes is the amount of food, but the food is pretty much the same.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that everyone should be counting calories for the rest of their lives. The only time I really count calories is when I'm cutting weight. I tried the guesstimate method and it didn't work too well for me because I tend to underestimate food.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:41 PM   #13
Darryl Shaw
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Paulo Santos View Post
If what you are doing works for you, then stick with it. I don't understand why you'd want to come here and try to change everyone's mind. Most people here like to eat clean, so the Paleo or Zone Diet works very well. 15% protein is very low for most people, especially if you want to add muscle. I prefer 30-40% protein. And counting calories isn't a bad thing, especially early on so you know how much you are eating. Most people tend to underestimate how much they eat and can't figure out why they aren't losing weight. And it also works the other way around, where people trying to gain weight aren't eating enough.
A eucaloric diet with 15% of calories provided by protein, which typically works out as 0.8-1.6gPRO/kg/d depending on energy intake, is perfectly adequate for most people.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:16 PM   #14
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
A eucaloric diet with 15% of calories provided by protein, which typically works out as 0.8-1.6gPRO/kg/d depending on energy intake, is perfectly adequate for most people.
adequate does not equal optimal... also, there is a huge difference betwee 0.8 and 1.6, that is double. my question when i first read your first response was what if the 1-1.4g/kg doesn't equal 15%? do you adjust amount of protein to be more g/kg, or do you adjust calories to make it 15%?
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:35 PM   #15
Peter Hetzel
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Larry Bruce View Post
I'm anti-dieting. I mean almost everyone fails at it and puts back on the weight. And for their effort they lose lean tissue and gain back fat.

Anyway if you do diet don't expect your lifts to go up. It's possible
but don't expect it.

Don't mean to be a sour-puss but it's a mugs game
I don't intend for my lifts to go up very much during the weight loss - I plan on focusing on lifting technique and endurance for a first step. I've also made decent strength gains before while losing body fat. I think this is more an effect that happens to a novice, which is kind of the state I am in now.


I did put back on weight I had lost initially about two years ago, so that's why the plan I presented is fairly simple and should be able to become a permanent fixture in my life. It avoids calorie counting and more focuses on a long, slow process in order to find what works in terms of a life-long commitment.


I'm glad this turned into a discussion - I have a few MMA friends that consider high protein diets to be poor, and I have a few CrossFit friends that consider a protein deficient diet to be poor. I'm glad both sides are represented here.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:17 PM   #16
Mara Rozitis
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

I think your initial post was on the right track. You should be able to lose fat eating that way if you are doing intense exercise. Try it out. If you are failing, you may want to try tracking more closely. I agree that it must be something that you can do for the rest of your life. The only tweak I would suggest would be to eat all macronutrients at every meal (may omit fat PWO) and to only eat real food. I don't remember if you were using shakes, but if you are trying to lose fat they may not be the best (and most satiating) option.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:00 AM   #17
Darryl Shaw
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Andrew N. Casey View Post
adequate does not equal optimal... also, there is a huge difference betwee 0.8 and 1.6, that is double. my question when i first read your first response was what if the 1-1.4g/kg doesn't equal 15%? do you adjust amount of protein to be more g/kg, or do you adjust calories to make it 15%?
The use of percentages is useful when prescribing macronutrient intakes at the population level but it causes no end of confusion at the individual level, particularly when people fail to understand a little basic math (not that I'm accusing you of this). What people often fail to appreciate is that a change in energy intake affects the percentages of all three macronutrients even when one is variable is held constant. So for example, if an athlete increases their calorie intake while maintaining a constant protein intake of 90g/d their protein intake expressed as percentage of total calories will decrease. Conversely if they reduce their calorie intake while maintaining a protein intake of 90g/d their protein intake expressed as a percentage of total calories will increase. This is why at the individual level people are advised to forget about percentages and calculate their actual protein requirements (grams/d) based on their fat free mass (if known) or ideal body mass.
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