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Old 09-25-2012, 12:28 PM   #1
Peter Hetzel
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A Couple of Nutrition Questions

Hi Folks,


Sorry about the long post in advance. I have a few broad nutrition questions and also would like some criticisms/recommendations about my current diet conceptions.

First off, I'm currently trying to lose weight and work on lifting technique with CrossFit. I am currently 6'2" 210 lbs, with about 17 percent BF. My diet during this portion of my total plan is as follows (with the theme being simplicity and consistency):


- Eat as many fruits and veggies as possible. No fruits or vegetables are off limits or limited. Eat as many greens as possible.
- Hit a daily protein count of 1 gram per body weight.
- Supplement with a greens drink and omega 3.
- Lean meats supply protein, while fats are supplied with avocado/walnuts/sardines.
- Calorie counting is generally ignored, reduced to monitoring how I look and adjusting food by replacing higher calorie density food with vegetables.


Average day: Walnuts and banana for breakfast - pork tenderloin, sweet potato, and broccoli for lunch - black beans and avocado for snack - mixed veggies for snack - protein shake and spinach banana smoothie PWO - Sardines and sweet potato for dinner.


Any recommendations here? Do you consider macros important to experiment with, and what would you start off with in terms of macros if you were me?



Thanks guys!
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:34 PM   #2
Paulo Santos
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hetzel View Post
Any recommendations here?
Yeah, count your calories and go on a deficit if you want to lose fat.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:54 PM   #3
Peter Hetzel
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Paulo Santos View Post
Yeah, count your calories and go on a deficit if you want to lose fat.
I've lost weight very successfully before without counting calories and just substituting high calorie density foods for low ones when I hit a wall. The deficit concept is obvious, but are you saying it's a strict calorie in vs. calorie out problem when it comes to weight loss? I wish to retain strength as well, so does that still make this a strict calorie in vs. calorie out issue?


If it is then it becomes an appetite/energy issue I suppose, so what foods or macros would you recommend for keeping appetite down? I've heard high protein is good for that.


Thanks for any advice.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:56 PM   #4
Peter Hetzel
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

Also I realize everyone is different and I'm going to need to experiment and see what i respond to the best.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:20 PM   #5
Paulo Santos
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hetzel View Post
I've lost weight very successfully before without counting calories and just substituting high calorie density foods for low ones when I hit a wall. The deficit concept is obvious, but are you saying it's a strict calorie in vs. calorie out problem when it comes to weight loss? I wish to retain strength as well, so does that still make this a strict calorie in vs. calorie out issue?


If it is then it becomes an appetite/energy issue I suppose, so what foods or macros would you recommend for keeping appetite down? I've heard high protein is good for that.


Thanks for any advice.
It really is all about calories in calories out. I use MyFitnessPal and I just set it up to lose 1lb per week when I want to cut weight and I follow it as strictly as I can. It works very well. As long as you eat 30-40% protein, you can play around with the fat and carb percentages to see what works best for you.

As far as keeping the appetite down, you can try different things such as 4-5 meals per day. Protein helps and you should try to have it at every meal.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:32 PM   #6
Mekenzie Lewis
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hetzel View Post
The deficit concept is obvious, but are you saying it's a strict calorie in vs. calorie out problem when it comes to weight loss? I wish to retain strength as well, so does that still make this a strict calorie in vs. calorie out issue?


If it is then it becomes an appetite/energy issue I suppose
Though not a male, and not eating nearly as many calories as you, I am in similar confusion. Id like to lean up, so to lose the fattness, cardio goes up and calories come down (counting cals blows hard, btw.) So here I am, starving myself the 3 days a week I do a metcon in the morning plus the WOD/strength work in class in the evenings. MyFitnessPal is set up for 1 lb loss/wk and I dont record my calorie burn (mainly because I cant estimate how much I ACTUALLY burn at CF) so its usually a sh*tstorm of confusion.
I can tell when I eat less I have less energy and tend to lose muscle mass, from previous weight loss experiences. How to keep up mass/strength while melting fat, AND not starving-this is the question...?
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:42 PM   #7
Paulo Santos
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

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Originally Posted by Mekenzie Lewis View Post
Though not a male, and not eating nearly as many calories as you, I am in similar confusion. Id like to lean up, so to lose the fattness, cardio goes up and calories come down (counting cals blows hard, btw.) So here I am, starving myself the 3 days a week I do a metcon in the morning plus the WOD/strength work in class in the evenings. MyFitnessPal is set up for 1 lb loss/wk and I dont record my calorie burn (mainly because I cant estimate how much I ACTUALLY burn at CF) so its usually a sh*tstorm of confusion.
I can tell when I eat less I have less energy and tend to lose muscle mass, from previous weight loss experiences. How to keep up mass/strength while melting fat, AND not starving-this is the question...?
On the days that you workout, you SHOULD enter the workouts into MyFitnessPal. It is very easy to do and they can all be found under The "Cardiovascular" Section. If you do any strength training, go to the Cardiovascular section and find Strength Training and put in how many minutes you worked out. If you do a Metcon, you can use Circuit Training or Calisthenics (They both burn the same amount). Just enter how many minutes.

On a regular day that I workout, I generally burn about 250 calories. For me to lose 1lb per week, I have to eat 1700 calories. So on the days that I workout, I actually eat 1950 calories, but my net is 1700. This way, you don't feel too weak and you still lose fat. If you are losing too much muscle, it is probably because you aren't doing enough strength work.

Once you reach your BF goal, you should maintain, or go on a slight bulk.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:30 PM   #8
Larry Bruce
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

I'm anti-dieting. I mean almost everyone fails at it and puts back on the weight. And for their effort they lose lean tissue and gain back fat.

Anyway if you do diet don't expect your lifts to go up. It's possible
but don't expect it.

Don't mean to be a sour-puss but it's a mugs game
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:31 AM   #9
Darryl Shaw
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hetzel View Post
My diet during this portion of my total plan is as follows (with the theme being simplicity and consistency):

- Eat as many fruits and veggies as possible. No fruits or vegetables are off limits or limited. Eat as many greens as possible.
- Hit a daily protein count of 1 gram per body weight.
- Supplement with a greens drink and omega 3.
- Lean meats supply protein, while fats are supplied with avocado/walnuts/sardines.
- Calorie counting is generally ignored, reduced to monitoring how I look and adjusting food by replacing higher calorie density food with vegetables.

Average day: Walnuts and banana for breakfast - pork tenderloin, sweet potato, and broccoli for lunch - black beans and avocado for snack - mixed veggies for snack - protein shake and spinach banana smoothie PWO - Sardines and sweet potato for dinner.


Any recommendations here?
That's actully quite a sensible plan, something of a first for this forum I think. Anyway, there are a couple of minor issues that you may want to address -

- 1gPRO/lb/d is a little excessive if that's what you meant, 1-1.4gPRO/kg/d is more than adequate for most recreational exercisers.

- You don't need omega-3 supplements if you're eating eat oily fish and walnuts.

- Unless it's a spinach smoothie or something similar replace the green drink with leafy green vegetables.

Quote:
Do you consider macros important to experiment with, and what would you start off with in terms of macros if you were me?
The standard recommentation for both athletes and recreational exercisers is 60% carbs, 25% fat, and 15% protein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hetzel View Post
I've lost weight very successfully before without counting calories and just substituting high calorie density foods for low ones when I hit a wall.
It's far easier to adjust the energy density of ones diet without going to the trouble of counting calories, something which is almost impossible to do with any accuracy, so this is a really sensible approach to dieting and one that I wish others on this forum would adopt.

Quote:
If it is then it becomes an appetite/energy issue I suppose, so what foods or macros would you recommend for keeping appetite down? I've heard high protein is good for that.
Protein is the most satiating macronutrient, followed by carbohydrates with fats trailing a long way behind. However, high protein foods often contain significant amounts of fat making them quite energy dense compared with whole grains, fruits and veggies etc. So although protein is satiating it is still quite easy to eat too much without realizing, something known as passive overconsumption. That isn't to say that high protein foods should be avoided however, just that it's easier to control both your appetite and calorie intake when your diet is largely based on whole foods such as whole grains, legumes, fruit and vegetables.

Finally, a few links to help you make sense of all this -

FAO.org - Diet, Nutrition and the Prevention of Chronic Diseases.

Position of the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine: Nutrition and Athletic Performance.

IOC Consensus Statement on Sports Nutrition 2010.

IOC Sportsoracle.com - Nutrition for Athletes.

IAAF.org - Nutrition for Athletics.

AIS Sports Nutrition Factsheets.

*All links wfs*
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:46 AM   #10
Paulo Santos
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Re: A Couple of Nutrition Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
That's actully quite a sensible plan, something of a first for this forum I think. Anyway, there are a couple of minor issues that you may want to address -

- 1gPRO/lb/d is a little excessive if that's what you meant, 1-1.4gPRO/kg/d is more than adequate for most recreational exercisers.

- You don't need omega-3 supplements if you're eating eat oily fish and walnuts.

- Unless it's a spinach smoothie or something similar replace the green drink with leafy green vegetables.



The standard recommentation for both athletes and recreational exercisers is 60% carbs, 25% fat, and 15% protein.



It's far easier to adjust the energy density of ones diet without going to the trouble of counting calories, something which is almost impossible to do with any accuracy, so this is a really sensible approach to dieting and one that I wish others on this forum would adopt.



Protein is the most satiating macronutrient, followed by carbohydrates with fats trailing a long way behind. However, high protein foods often contain significant amounts of fat making them quite energy dense compared with whole grains, fruits and veggies etc. So although protein is satiating it is still quite easy to eat too much without realizing, something known as passive overconsumption. That isn't to say that high protein foods should be avoided however, just that it's easier to control both your appetite and calorie intake when your diet is largely based on whole foods such as whole grains, legumes, fruit and vegetables.

Finally, a few links to help you make sense of all this -

FAO.org - Diet, Nutrition and the Prevention of Chronic Diseases.

Position of the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine: Nutrition and Athletic Performance.

IOC Consensus Statement on Sports Nutrition 2010.

IOC Sportsoracle.com - Nutrition for Athletes.

IAAF.org - Nutrition for Athletics.

AIS Sports Nutrition Factsheets.

*All links wfs*
If what you are doing works for you, then stick with it. I don't understand why you'd want to come here and try to change everyone's mind. Most people here like to eat clean, so the Paleo or Zone Diet works very well. 15% protein is very low for most people, especially if you want to add muscle. I prefer 30-40% protein. And counting calories isn't a bad thing, especially early on so you know how much you are eating. Most people tend to underestimate how much they eat and can't figure out why they aren't losing weight. And it also works the other way around, where people trying to gain weight aren't eating enough.
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