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Old 09-21-2012, 09:31 AM   #11
Beau Davis
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

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Originally Posted by Larry Bruce View Post
So if you are burning around 3000 calories a day, it seems that your diet is around 2000 before the PB. Didn't plug it into a calc but it seems like a big deficit and probably why you are craving the peanut butter. Even after the PB you're no more than 2400.

That's a big enough deficit to progress. How long have you been eating this way and what are your results so far?

You could eat more grains, pseudo grains or starchy tubers instead of PB as your carb intake is quite low for an athletic lifestyle. Sufficent carbs will protect against lean body mass loss too.
Well, when I started crossfit I was 220 lbs with 21% bf. I went strict paleo and in 50 days dropped to 198 lbs and 15% bf. That was last October. Around March I noticed I was down to 192 and my workouts were suffering, so I started incorporating the sweet potatoes, oatmeal, and more veggies. So, I guess i've between eating this way since around March.

I was 196 yesterday and I've been PR'ing on lifts and doing better on my WoD times. Also, since March I can fit into some of my clothes better and i've gained a little more definition. That's why, even though not having been measured, I feel my bf has dropped below the 15% it was last October.


About incorporating more carbs, I had thought about jumping up to a whole sweet potato and a full cup of oatmeal.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:25 AM   #12
Michael Dries
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

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Well, when I started crossfit I was 220 lbs with 21% bf. I went strict paleo and in 50 days dropped to 198 lbs and 15% bf. That was last October. Around March I noticed I was down to 192 and my workouts were suffering, so I started incorporating the sweet potatoes, oatmeal, and more veggies. So, I guess i've between eating this way since around March.

I was 196 yesterday and I've been PR'ing on lifts and doing better on my WoD times. Also, since March I can fit into some of my clothes better and i've gained a little more definition. That's why, even though not having been measured, I feel my bf has dropped below the 15% it was last October.


About incorporating more carbs, I had thought about jumping up to a whole sweet potato and a full cup of oatmeal.

Wait wait.


You started out strict Paleo. Lost a bunch of body fat. Then CHANGED what you were doing?

News flash #1: If what you're doing is working, why change it?

News flash #2: Unless you plan on counting every single calorie and macro and plan to drop weight over years rather than weeks or months, you're performance IS GOING TO SUFFER while in a calorie deficit.

News flash #3: You've not been eating strict paleo + more fruits starch and veggies. Protein power, peanut butter, oatmeal and milled flax are not paleo. Agave is pure sugar, almond milk and turkey bacon aren't even real food (almonds are not mammals and turkeys don't have fatty underbelly to make bacon from). So you've strayed really far away from what was initially working. Unless our definitions of "strict paleo" are not inline.


I put all your food into a calorie tracker, you're looking at about 3000/day with the peanut butter. I think you're grossly over estimating the amount you burn. If you're really getting 3000 calories a day (and you're not underestimating your portion sizes you reported above) then you're simply not burning more than 3000 calories a day. Simple as that .The Macro breakdowns were something like 270g of protein (way too much, you're wasting your money), 213 of carbs and 145g of fat.

What master do you want to serve? Do you want to get lean as all hell at the expense of performance? Then you're going to have to get into some pretty uncomfortable calorie restriction and deal with sucking in the gym. Don't expect to put 30lbs on your press or cut your fran time in half while doing it.

Do you want to set a goal for yourself of getting to 10% BF levels in six months while making modest gains in the gym? That's probably more realistic. But also be realistic about your performance goals.

I'd start with dropping the PB and replacing the protein powders with real food, at minimum. Also get rid of the flax, what the hell is that for? Fiber? eat veggies. omega-3? It's got a **** poor conversion rate and ends up mostly as omega-6 after metabolizing. I know it's not because you like the taste ;-) . And I'd probably not eat so damn often. You're eating 7-8 times a day, you're CONSTANTLY giving your body more and more calories to burn from outside sources. You're never (aside from sleeping) giving your hormones and digestion a break. Maybe try going to 3 meals a day for a while and see how that works. Give your body some time to actually utilize some stored energy.


BTW what was your Crossfit total numbers? That will be very telling if you need to lean out or should work to build more muscle.

Last edited by Michael Dries : 09-21-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:19 AM   #13
Beau Davis
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

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Originally Posted by Michael Dries View Post
Wait wait.


You started out strict Paleo. Lost a bunch of body fat. Then CHANGED what you were doing?

News flash #1: If what you're doing is working, why change it?

News flash #2: Unless you plan on counting every single calorie and macro and plan to drop weight over years rather than weeks or months, you're performance IS GOING TO SUFFER while in a calorie deficit.

News flash #3: You've not been eating strict paleo + more fruits starch and veggies. Protein power, peanut butter, oatmeal and milled flax are not paleo. Agave is pure sugar, almond milk and turkey bacon aren't even real food (almonds are not mammals and turkeys don't have fatty underbelly to make bacon from). So you've strayed really far away from what was initially working. Unless our definitions of "strict paleo" are not inline.


I put all your food into a calorie tracker, you're looking at about 3000/day with the peanut butter. I think you're grossly over estimating the amount you burn. If you're really getting 3000 calories a day (and you're not underestimating your portion sizes you reported above) then you're simply not burning more than 3000 calories a day. Simple as that .The Macro breakdowns were something like 270g of protein (way too much, you're wasting your money), 213 of carbs and 145g of fat.

What master do you want to serve? Do you want to get lean as all hell at the expense of performance? Then you're going to have to get into some pretty uncomfortable calorie restriction and deal with sucking in the gym. Don't expect to put 30lbs on your press or cut your fran time in half while doing it.

Do you want to set a goal for yourself of getting to 10% BF levels in six months while making modest gains in the gym? That's probably more realistic. But also be realistic about your performance goals.

I'd start with dropping the PB and replacing the protein powders with real food, at minimum. Also get rid of the flax, what the hell is that for? Fiber? eat veggies. omega-3? It's got a **** poor conversion rate and ends up mostly as omega-6 after metabolizing. I know it's not because you like the taste ;-) . And I'd probably not eat so damn often. You're eating 7-8 times a day, you're CONSTANTLY giving your body more and more calories to burn from outside sources. You're never (aside from sleeping) giving your hormones and digestion a break. Maybe try going to 3 meals a day for a while and see how that works. Give your body some time to actually utilize some stored energy.


BTW what was your Crossfit total numbers? That will be very telling if you need to lean out or should work to build more muscle.
This^ is an outstanding post. (CFT numbers are: DL - 370#, BS - 295#, Press - 155# (could go five or ten lbs heavier on the press.)

First, when I was initially researching paleo, I was reading a lot of disagreement about certain foods and whether or not they were "strict" (agave, honey, flax, etc...). To save confusion and make things easier on my part, I just cleaned up my diet by eliminating dairy (except for the protein powder), wheat/grains, sugars and junk foods. Seemed pretty "strict" to me.

And like I said, I was losing muscle mass and performing terribly during my WODs, so around March I reintroduced to my diet the casein powder, oatmeal, and sweet potato.

I'm feeling a lot better, but like you said, if I want to achieve that goal, I'm going to have to make some sacrifices or at least some adjustments. And honestly, paleo is not that difficult. My wife is a phenomenal cook. She gets tons of awesome paleo recipes from paleo sites and cooks the he** out of them.

And no, I definitely don't eat flax for the taste; it's for the fiber, like you said.

I'm going to do as you said and replace as much of the protein powders with food as I can working with my limited budget and eliminate the peanut butter (I went last night without eating any).

Thanks again for all the input. I figured there were just a few tweaks I needed to make. It's just a blow to the ego to see my performance suffer, but I'll try to keep it in perspective.

Oh, and a question about cutting down the number of my daily meals: At first glance, it seems like trying to cram all my macros into just three meals would make for some super-huge meals. Should I be eating huge servings of meat and veggies at each meal? Or am I wrong and vastly over-estimating the amount of protein and other nutrients I think I need?

Last edited by Beau Davis : 09-21-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #14
Michael Dries
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

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Originally Posted by Beau Davis View Post
This^ is an outstanding post. (CFT numbers are: DL - 370#, BS - 295#, Press - 155# (could go five or ten lbs heavier on the press.)

First, when I was initially researching paleo, I was reading a lot of disagreement about certain foods and whether or not they were "strict" (agave, honey, flax, etc...). To save confusion and make things easier on my part, I just cleaned up my diet by eliminating dairy (except for the protein powder), wheat/grains, sugars and junk foods. Seemed pretty "strict" to me.

And like I said, I was losing muscle mass and performing terribly during my WODs, so around March I reintroduced to my diet the casein powder, oatmeal, and sweet potato.

I'm feeling a lot better, but like you said, if I want to achieve that goal, I'm going to have to make some sacrifices or at least some adjustments. And honestly, paleo is not that difficult. My wife is a phenomenal cook. She gets tons of awesome paleo recipes from paleo sites and cooks the he** out of them.

And no, I definitely don't eat flax for the taste; it's for the fiber, like you said.

I'm going to do as you said and replace as much of the protein powders with food as I can working with my limited budget and eliminate the peanut butter (I went last night without eating any).

Thanks again for all the input. I figured there were just a few tweaks I needed to make. It's just a blow to the ego to see my performance suffer, but I'll try to keep it in perspective.
FYI "STRICT" paleo is no grains, no legumes, no dairy, no added sugars. Meat, veggies, tubers if you're doing heavy glycogen dependent workouts. No dairy no agave, etc. Pretty boring but that's why man discovered herbs and seasonings :-)


But let me say something about Paleo. Paleo isn't a magic weight loss solution. You can easily get fat eating Paleo foods. A bottle of almond butter a night isn't any different than a bottle of peanut butter right? Paleo is about using the elimination diet to get a baseline of health. Seeing IF you have issues with any foods that you might not realize without jettisoning them for a while. On top of that its about making the most nutritious choices given the food options you have. No one will tell me that chicken and grilled veggies is less nutritious than a grilled cheese sandwich. Calories and macro's being equal right?

Working inside a budget I'm no stranger to. Frozen veggies, regular potatoes if you need the glycogen and bulk meat is your friend. If I'm careful I can feed my wife and I on about $300/month. That's if she doesn't insist on making "paleo" treats, god gluten free this that and coconut flour is freaking expensive.

It's no secret that a low carb diet will strip the fat off of you in short order. It's just hard to stick to and make gains in the gym. Unless you're a complete n00b (which you're not your CFT numbers are decent) your performance in the gym will really suffer.

Makes more sense to keep the carbs moderate, maybe 1g /lb of body weight along with 1g/lb of protein and fill in the extra calories with fat from nuts or coconut/olive oil.

If you're worried about blood lipid levels stick to unprocessed meat (no bacon/sausage here unless you can pronounce all the ingredients and they don't contain any sugar), veggies, fruit, some nuts (stick to shelled, it minimized over consumption), tubers and olive and coconut oil you should be fine. Get some blood work from your doc before, tweak your diet for 3 months and get it again. See if there are any detrimental changes.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:31 PM   #15
Beau Davis
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

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Originally Posted by Michael Dries View Post
FYI "STRICT" paleo is no grains, no legumes, no dairy, no added sugars. Meat, veggies, tubers if you're doing heavy glycogen dependent workouts. No dairy no agave, etc. Pretty boring but that's why man discovered herbs and seasonings :-)


But let me say something about Paleo. Paleo isn't a magic weight loss solution. You can easily get fat eating Paleo foods. A bottle of almond butter a night isn't any different than a bottle of peanut butter right? Paleo is about using the elimination diet to get a baseline of health. Seeing IF you have issues with any foods that you might not realize without jettisoning them for a while. On top of that its about making the most nutritious choices given the food options you have. No one will tell me that chicken and grilled veggies is less nutritious than a grilled cheese sandwich. Calories and macro's being equal right?

Working inside a budget I'm no stranger to. Frozen veggies, regular potatoes if you need the glycogen and bulk meat is your friend. If I'm careful I can feed my wife and I on about $300/month. That's if she doesn't insist on making "paleo" treats, god gluten free this that and coconut flour is freaking expensive.

It's no secret that a low carb diet will strip the fat off of you in short order. It's just hard to stick to and make gains in the gym. Unless you're a complete n00b (which you're not your CFT numbers are decent) your performance in the gym will really suffer.

Makes more sense to keep the carbs moderate, maybe 1g /lb of body weight along with 1g/lb of protein and fill in the extra calories with fat from nuts or coconut/olive oil.

If you're worried about blood lipid levels stick to unprocessed meat (no bacon/sausage here unless you can pronounce all the ingredients and they don't contain any sugar), veggies, fruit, some nuts (stick to shelled, it minimized over consumption), tubers and olive and coconut oil you should be fine. Get some blood work from your doc before, tweak your diet for 3 months and get it again. See if there are any detrimental changes.
Thanks, man. I actually just had my annual physical done and with the exception of my cholesterol being 10 points too high, my blood work was fantastic (so says the nurse).

Yeah, we buy frozen veggies, meat, and eggs in bulk. I really think I might be over-estimating how much food I think I need. I mean, I absolutely destroy some meat every day. I might be able to eliminate the protein powders totally and get by on the meat and eggs that I'm already eating.

The more I think about them, the changes you all have recommended seem feasible with just a little work. I'm going to start by eliminating the peanut butter and agave and go from there.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:36 PM   #16
Rebecca Roth
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

Just one thing to add because you didn't seem to pick up on this, you say "but how do I eat everything I need in 3 meals, big hunks of meat?". By Michael's calculation you are eating 270g of protein, which is likely near DOUBLE your body's requirement. That means no, you don't eat big hunks of meat. It means you drop your protein shakes entirely, keep eating the same amount of meat you already are at 3 meals, and just combine the other stuff down. Protiens are relatively expensive compared to the other parts of your diet, so you are basically throwing huge amount of money away by severely overconsuming it.
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:12 PM   #17
Beau Davis
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

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Just one thing to add because you didn't seem to pick up on this, you say "but how do I eat everything I need in 3 meals, big hunks of meat?". By Michael's calculation you are eating 270g of protein, which is likely near DOUBLE your body's requirement. That means no, you don't eat big hunks of meat. It means you drop your protein shakes entirely, keep eating the same amount of meat you already are at 3 meals, and just combine the other stuff down. Protiens are relatively expensive compared to the other parts of your diet, so you are basically throwing huge amount of money away by severely overconsuming it.
I gotcha.

But yeah, I did pick up on that. (Check out the second paragraph of my post before yours. )

It's going to take a little getting used to. I've been "grazing" on six or seven "meals" per day for like the last several years. I can definitely adjust, though.

I really do appreciate the time y'all have taken to help a brother out.

Last edited by Beau Davis : 09-21-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 03:06 PM   #18
Paulo Santos
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

Beau, I agree with the others. You need to decide whether you want to go on a cut or performance. I was fighting with this for a while and I decided to just give in and go on a cut, even if it is at the expense of performance.

If you want to cut weight, this is what you need to do:

1: Reduce calories to lose 1/2-1 lb / week.
2: Strength Training 3-4 times a week.
3: Eat .7-1g protein / lb lean body mass.

The easiest thing to do is download the MyFitnessPal App and just track your food. Set it up to lose 1 lb per week and also enter your workouts. At 13% bodyfat, it shouldn't take all that long for you to drop down to 10% body fat. Once you get to 10% body fat, then eat for maintenance or to gain 1/2 lb per week if you want to bulk up.

Trust me, it works. I've lost 15 lbs and I'm about 10 lbs from my goal.
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Old 09-21-2012, 03:32 PM   #19
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

oh the irony
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:25 PM   #20
Beau Davis
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Re: Question about diet and fat-loss (the one-millionth, I'm sure)

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oh the irony
Please explain.

Also, I shaved four minutes off my Angie time today, PR'd on Cln & J, and received an unprompted compliment on my appearance from the owner of my box.

I am going to make some dietary adjustments you all have so graciously provided, but I'm going to quit fretting about these last few percent.

Last edited by Beau Davis : 09-21-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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