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Old 03-30-2012, 01:04 PM   #11
Chris Mason
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Re: Nitrean+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
Can you explain why?
Our blend provides for superior net retention when compared to any whey-only product. Greater net retention means you can retain the same amount of amino acids with less powder. Net retention is a BIG component of protein ingestion in terms of supplementing as the whole point is to provide the substrate for recovery and growth.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:04 PM   #12
Dana Rice
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Re: Nitrean+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
Can you explain why?
I would guess bioavailability of the protein, since it is not junk filler. (i.e. isolates vs. concentrates vs. soy)

<i>Edit: nevermind, Chris answered above.</i>
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Last edited by Dana Rice : 03-30-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:11 PM   #13
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Nitrean+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Our blend provides for superior net retention when compared to any whey-only product. Greater net retention means you can retain the same amount of amino acids with less powder. Net retention is a BIG component of protein ingestion in terms of supplementing as the whole point is to provide the substrate for recovery and growth.
I was under the impression that the BV of whey protein was already very high (something like 96, with egg as the reference at 100). Here the BV is calculated as:

BV = ( Nr / Na ) * 100
Where:
Na = nitrogen absorbed in proteins on the test diet
Nr = nitrogen incorporated into the body on the test diet

Which measure of protein utilization are you referring to? Also since almost all the protein from regular food seems to be absorbed nearly completely (unless you are talking about whole wheat bread or soy or something), what is the percentage improvement for somebody with a habitually high protein intake?
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:42 PM   #14
Rob Brown
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Re: Nitrean+

You missed the 15% off sale, I think it ended yesterday.

I eat Nitrean, Nitrean+ and feel it's a solid product. Can't say much towards chemistry, I generally trust those that seem most trust-able haha. I do know it dissolves well, and tastes superior to most other products. I also had decent results with "Results" too. Broke a lot of PR's and saw a little more snap than usual. Results, took some of the wearyness out of my wod.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:31 PM   #15
Chris Mason
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Re: Nitrean+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
I was under the impression that the BV of whey protein was already very high (something like 96, with egg as the reference at 100). Here the BV is calculated as:

BV = ( Nr / Na ) * 100
Where:
Na = nitrogen absorbed in proteins on the test diet
Nr = nitrogen incorporated into the body on the test diet

Which measure of protein utilization are you referring to? Also since almost all the protein from regular food seems to be absorbed nearly completely (unless you are talking about whole wheat bread or soy or something), what is the percentage improvement for somebody with a habitually high protein intake?
Rate of absorption is a mitigating factor in net protein retention. There are a lot of flaws relative to the BV rating. First, to my knowledge, the tests are performed on rats, not humans. Next, whey tends to get shuttled to the liver for oxidation as opposed to being used for repair/growth due to its very fast absorption rate.

The type of protein also relates to the net protein equation in that whey is not catabolic while casein is. When you combine them (as nature does with milk) you get a net anabolic protein state after consumption.

You simply can't relegate protein ingestion to one formula. There are too many variables.

Here are a couple of points relative to the argument (two different sources):

Since the method measures only the amount that is retained in the body critics have pointed out what they perceive as a weakness of the biological value methodology.[17] Critics have pointed to research that indicates that because whey protein isolate is digested so quickly it may in fact enter the bloodstream and be converted into carbohydrates through a process called gluconeogenesis much more rapidly than was previously thought possible, so while amino acid concentrations increased with whey it was discovered that oxidation rates also increased and a steady-state metabolism, a process where there is no change in overall protein balance, is created.[18] They claim that when the human body consumes whey protein it is absorbed so rapidly that most of it is sent to the liver for oxidation. Hence they believe the reason so much is retained is that it is used for energy production not protein synthesis. This would bring into question whether the method defines which proteins are more biologically utilizable.

It has long been recognized that numerous dietary parameters, such as the amount and type of protein and nonprotein energy sources, affect protein metabolism. More recently, we demonstrated that the protein digestion rate is an independent factor regulating postprandial protein gain. Indeed, in young men, using a non-steady-state approach and intrinsically labeled milk protein fractions [whey protein (WP) and casein (CAS)] we showed that a slow digested dietary protein (CAS) induced a greater protein gain than a fast one (WP). The mechanisms of this gain also differed according to the protein rate of digestion. WP stimulated amino acid oxidation and protein synthesis without modifying proteolysis, whereas CAS increased amino acid oxidation and protein synthesis to a lesser extent and strongly inhibited proteolysis. These results led to the concept of "slow" and "fast" protein and were confirmed by further experiments during which the meals tested presented different digestion rates but were otherwise identical in terms of amino acid profile.

Last edited by Chris Mason : 03-30-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:34 PM   #16
Chris Mason
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Re: Nitrean+

Oh, and to answer the other question, generally speaking the higher the protein intake the lower the BV.

You will note I don't recommend ridiculously high protein intake.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:36 PM   #17
Chris Mason
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Re: Nitrean+

Oh, and by the way, I don't get overly explanatory when I talk about retention as there is no purpose to doing that with most people.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:40 PM   #18
Chris Mason
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Re: Nitrean+

And one last point. In the grand scheme with well fed individuals what is the actual difference? I don't know for sure, but what I do know is I want to offer the best product I know how (from all perspectives) and that is what I do.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:34 PM   #19
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Nitrean+

Thanks for the response. The reason I ask is because trueprotein.com provides all these different mixtures:
http://www.truenutrition.com/c-166-p...-formulas.aspx (WFS)

example:
Quote:
Team Skip Formula:

34% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration
33% Micellar Casein
33% Egg White Protein
It seems like there are plenty of mixes around, I am personally not informed enough to know what ratios are best, and it seems that whole foods tend to already be quite good, hence my questions.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:11 PM   #20
Chris Mason
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Re: Nitrean+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
Thanks for the response. The reason I ask is because trueprotein.com provides all these different mixtures:
http://www.truenutrition.com/c-166-p...-formulas.aspx (WFS)

example:


It seems like there are plenty of mixes around, I am personally not informed enough to know what ratios are best, and it seems that whole foods tend to already be quite good, hence my questions.
And that appears to be a solid product. I don't see that actual blend on the page you link to, but I believe it is there. In terms of there being plenty of blends similar to ours I think that is an exaggeration. There are a few, but not a lot especially when considering the protein supplements which most people use.

If you want to promote TrueNutrition I am all for that. They are a good company with reputable owners in my opinion.
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