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Old 09-10-2006, 08:10 PM   #1
Joe Beman
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I had read in a couple of places that soy is not a prefered form of protien becuase of it's high estrogen content and because it lowers testosterone. I think a Mike Mahler interview is one of the places I've heard this.

Is this truth or hogwash?

The only nutrition bars I like are the Zone perfect bars. They use soy protien. That would be a bummer.
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Old 09-10-2006, 08:34 PM   #2
Kevin McKay
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I think that it contains allot of estrogen
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:17 AM   #3
Mike ODonnell
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Yep, not a scientist but everything I have ever heard is that people need to stay away from soy. (especially women) Along with the estrogen, it is also mostly GMO (genetically modified) and can be high in toxins. Bars are not an ideal snack anyways with the sugar and other chemicals in them. Aim for whole food snacks, nuts, seeds, almond butter (my fav), etc.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:15 AM   #4
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phytoestrogens. i might consider it if i were a post menopausal woman, but not yet.

there is some legit contention regarding soy's cancer protection capacity--looks like it may be quite the opposite. search the boards--some good info on it in here somewhere.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:40 AM   #5
Yael Grauer
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Yeah, the phytoestrogens can cause hypothyroidism, and can mess up endocrine function (particularly in older women like Greg said).

Soy also has a lot of bad stuff like aluminum and trypsin inhibitors, and lots of phytic acid (just like grains, only presoaking doesn't neutralize them) which inhibits the absorption of minerals like calcium and iron.

There's also MSG, nitrosamines and lysinoalanine formed in the processing. Not to mention that it's GMO now.

Make sure you're getting enough vitamin D and extra minerals if you eat it.

All this applies to tofu too, any form of soy other than miso, tempeh or tamari.

The good news is that there are other really yummy nutrition bars out there that you can have instead of Zone bars. Larabars are a great alternative (with jerky for the protein block)--they are delicious! Also the Omega 3 organic food bars (the other flavors have soy) but I think they're only two protein and three carb blocks and four fat, if I remember correctly. I saw some fiber bars that looked pretty good too.

I'm experimenting with making my own bars, so I'll let you know if anything works well. Having a little trouble with the texture right now.
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:07 PM   #6
Blair Robert Lowe
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Actually from what I've read, most of the soy that is consumed in Asia is fermented as in tofu or natto ( yes, it really tastes as bad as it smells ).
The fermenting process from what I've read kills a lot of the phytoestrogen and what not. Point being, the west saw consumption of soy and off it went marketing wise, especially to the vegetarian community.

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Old 09-11-2006, 03:28 PM   #7
Scott Kustes
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From what I've read, Asians don't consume all that much soy anyway, contrary to the marketing message. I seem to recall that Japanese and Chinese both averaged under 2 teaspoons of soy products per day, and those are typically traditional fermented products.

The general consensus around here seems to be that the phytoestrogens are emasculating, turning us males into females. If it were going to turn me into an attractive, fit female like Eva, Nicole, or Annie, perhaps I'd eat up. But I've got a feeling I'd look awfully funny as a woman.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:03 PM   #8
Charlie Jackson
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From what I've read, Asians don't consume all that much soy anyway

They consume a lot of soy in China. China is forecasted to consume 181 million tons of rice in 2005-2006 and 43 million tons of soy.

http://russian.china.org.cn/english/China/155607.htm
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Old 09-12-2006, 03:36 PM   #9
Ben Jackson
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I have read many scholar journals on this subject and there are a lot of conflicting conclusions. The majority of the findings have found soy to be an acceptable source of protein comparable to beef, the testosterone and estrogen activity has been mostly insignificant (some studies say it raises estrogen/lowers T, others say there is no effect on either, some say the changes are minute at best and insignificant), soy does lower cholesterol, lower blood pressure, improve cardiovascular health, decrease arteriosclerosis, and is offered as non-GMO.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:56 PM   #10
Craig Cooper
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Ben - look at the amount consumed in these studies, and I'm sure you'll find that yes, in small amounts (typical of those found in an Asian's diet) soy is shown to have many beneficial health effects. In large doses, such as those recommended by most pro-soy companies, soy's estrogenic effects show up, as well as a host of other toxic/cancer promoting effects.

The bottom-line (in my opinion): don't be afraid of soy, but severely limit your intake, and certainly don't supplement with soy protein.
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