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Old 06-05-2006, 03:18 PM   #11
Darrell E. White
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Stephen:

H2O still your best bet. Post work-out is a little more complex. Researchers at the Univ. of Wisconsin working with bike racers have found that the optimal glycogen replacement strategy is carbs to protein 4:1 ratio approximately 30-45 minutes after any intense aerobic exercise lasting more than 40 minutes. Totally "unzone", but if you think about it, the strategy is simply to replenish the glycogen stores in your muscles by taking advantabe of a very specific insulin "spike" within that window post exercise. This recovery "meal" helps to prevent the post-workout bonk that occurs after intense, prolonged endurance work like bike racing, etc.

Since starting CF in January I have passed on this in favor of a 2 block Zone snack, or I have timed my WOD so that my next major meal comes 30-60 minutes after I can get up off the floor :happy:! I will crash in a very ugly way if I don't have something, and my personal experience is that either strategy will prevent the bonk. Intuitively, my instinct is that it doesn't matter which one I choose. I'm just kinda locked in on the Zone just now.

It will be interesting to hear what more experienced CF/Zone folks have to say about 4:1 vs. Zone.
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Old 06-05-2006, 03:37 PM   #12
Mike Griffith
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Here is a very good article addressing your very question. It is based on science. Check it out.

http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/7...TOKEN=76863672

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Old 06-05-2006, 04:38 PM   #13
Garrett Smith
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Wow, no vested interests in an article published by the "Gatorade Sports Science Institute".

Water by itself is very poor at hydrating the body--that's why you have to pee *all the time*. Not much is getting absorbed.

Water is absorbed via electrolyte- and glucose-dependent transporters. Last time I looked, most of the super-purified waters people are drinking these days don't have either.

I have several testimonials from people on this board that drinking large amounts of green/white/herbal teas has greatly reduced their number of trips to the bathroom (while still consuming similar amounts of fluid). I personally drink 64-96 ounces of tea on a daily basis and only make 2-3 small trips to the bathroom.

Why tea? Small amounts of a wide spectrum of minerals, along with enough sugars to facilitate water absorption, result in much better hydration than plain water. Again, search the board for water and hydration and you'll find the two threads where this was thoroughly discussed before, along with a good link discussing the electrolyte and glucose transport mechanisms.

Sports drinks are junk. Sugar syrups, salt, and synthetic vitamins. Whoopee.

People doing the WOD don't need to worry themselves with this topic.
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Old 06-05-2006, 07:44 PM   #14
Mike Griffith
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I knew someone was going to say something about that. I did not see one reference to drinking Gatorade as an endorsement.

The Gatorade Sports Science Institute is an independent Lab that explores all aspects of training not just sports drinks. I have been there and they do many impartial studies on many different disciplines. It is similar to the Cooper Institute. The article provided had 48 independent references spanning over 20 years of research from peer reviewed and validated sources.

Go to the website http://www.gssiweb.com/aboutgssi/researchlabs/ and see for yourself.

It is funny that a guy that who posted “Enlightening article on dairy” Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 11:45 am: cracked on someone who did science as the basis of findings. The article on dairy had so many outlandish and silly claims that it is comical. There were no reference standards or clinical trials. How can you crack on someone else’s work?

Also to use antidotal evidence as the basis for advice is ok but it still does not replace science. Drinking tea may or may not work but where is the science behind the claims?

The information put forward in the GSSI article is documented and validated in other text and sources. I can provide them if you need additional references.

One of the main reasons that guys who do the WOD lose so much fat and LBM is that their post workout nutrition may not be adequate using the popular Zone/Paleo diet. If you read the advice that the bigger and more muscular Crosfitters give to trainees inquiring about building muscle mass they expound eat, eat, and eat. Drinking a solution of carbs & protein facilitates muscle protein synthesis and glycogen replenishment. These are facts; ask the M.D. who posted above me.
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Old 06-05-2006, 09:34 PM   #15
Garrett Smith
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Mike,
I don't believe we'll ever see animal-based industries putting forward "reference standards or clinical trials".

Anecdotal evidence always precedes scientific backup. Take CF for example.

If you believe that GSSI is impartial, you keep on doing that. I don't.

Are you basing your statement "One of the main reasons that guys who do the WOD lose so much fat and LBM is that their post workout nutrition may not be adequate using the popular Zone/Paleo diet. If you read the advice that the bigger and more muscular Crosfitters give to trainees inquiring about building muscle mass they expound eat, eat, and eat.", on anecdotes or clinical trials? Are the bigger and more muscular guys healthier? Every fat guy I know who works out has their PWO shake religiously--and they stay fat. Note I have no clinical trials to base that on, just my own observations.

I don't personally have the money to sponsor studies--do you? Know why there won't be any studies on tea and hydration? Because there isn't a patent to be had or money to be made. Always, always follow the money.

Try to relax on this board.
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:31 PM   #16
Taha Mohamedali
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I've been using a 4:1 carb protien drink for while now. I actually have a tin of Accelerade waiting to be busted open. I only use this drink for longer duration workouts or on days that I do mulitple workouts. Normal zoning cannot sustain my workouts for more than 2 days or so - I end up crashing on day 3, I also do much better carb loading about twice a week. I too have found through my research that optimal hydration (esp. at a cellular level) is obtained by using a simple sugar / electrolyte mix. however I usually dilute the drinks more than "recommended". I add D-Ribose, Creatine and glutamine to the 4:1 drink... my nervous system recovers faster with adequate glucose and glutamine circulating
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Old 06-06-2006, 01:47 AM   #17
Andy Shirley
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I have used Gookinaid Hydralyte with much success.

Not during or post WOD, but during rugby games and tournaments. I replaced my water with it during games. I used to cramp up after warm weather games(I've had both quads, both hammies and both calves go, all at once-it is the worse thing i've ever experienced), and this has solved the problem.

Below from their website. Don't have time to look into any more research right now.

www.gookinaid.com

Total Carbohydrates: 4.85%
Other Sweeteners: None
Coloring: 3.6 ppm RED #40
Flavorings: Natural Citrus and other Natural Fruit flavors
Solution Concentration: 5.0%
Osmolality (milli-osmols): 264



NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION: The isotonic osmolality and precise concentrations of glucose and electrolytes in Gookinaid Hydralyte facilitate rapid gastric absorption of all components directly into the circulatory system. Studies with athletes while running at marathon pace or on bicycle ergometers show decreases in circulatory osmolality and elevations in blood glucose and potassium levels for all subjects in as little as 3 minutes after ingestion of 200-400 cc. Gastric emptying studies show measurable decreases in gastric fluid volume in the same time and 86-92% of the solution is absorbed within 15 minutes. Changes in serum osmolality and blood glucose and potassium levels (and thousands of anecdotal reports) support the conclusion that the decrease in gastric fluid volume is due to systemic absorption rather than simply emptying into the intestines which happens with “isotonic” sport and energy drinks.

Gookinaid Hydralyte is, therefore, recommended for rapid oral rehydration and electrolyte replacement, especially when minimal gastric discomfort is important as in strenuous or prolonged exertion, heat stress, exposure, shock, trauma, illness, malaise or fatigue.

The small concentrations of glucose in Gookinaid Hydralyte facilitate rapid absorption (by making the solution isotonic and being the only sugar that can be absorbed directly into the blood from the stomach). It can aid in maintaining blood-glucose levels but would not be a significant source of carbohydrate for energy. Gookinaid Hydralyte is not intended to be an “energy drink” but, because it is so rapidly absorbed and has the appropriate balance of electrolytes to replace those lost in exercise or stress, it should be used as the supplemental source of fluids necessary for intestinal digestion and absorption of complex carbohydrates in energy drinks and energy bars as well as for systemic hydration.

Drinking concentrated solutions of sports and energy drinks or eating during or immediately after strenuous or prolonged exertion without taking in additional water or isotonic electrolyte solution will cause water to be pulled from the muscles and circulation into the digestive system, often causing extensive muscle cramping. Plain water takes a comparatively long time to be absorbed and can, in extensive strenuous activities, “flush out” a person’s own electrolytes, resulting in hyponatremia which can be life-threatening. Taking salt tablets or drinking solutions with an excess of sodium can result in depletion of the other electrolytes, especially potassium, and has caused many cases of permanent cardiac arrhythmia in ultra-distance runners, construction and farm workers and others in prolonged strenuous efforts.

For more information or to order, visit us at www.Gookinaid.com or
Gookinaid, 8525 Arjons Drive, Suite L, San Diego, CA 92126 (800) 283-6505
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:56 AM   #18
Darrell E. White
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Stephen, Mike, et al.

I'm gonna have to respectfully take a pass on expanding my answer and commenting on the physiology of kidney function necessary to really address the H2O/electrolyte issue, but I will apologize for the semi-hijack of Stephen's thread with the recovery drink introduction. Suffice it to say that I continue to feel as I posted above, and if I get a chance to get to some linkable sources I will expand on my comments with what I hope would be good science. Sounds kinda cowardly, I know, but I'm feeling the need to share more than my thoughts.

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Old 06-06-2006, 12:06 PM   #19
Elliot Royce
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I use Endurox which has the carb:protein ratio referred to above. Otherwise, I try to stick pretty much to the Zone. I believe that the body does change its receptivity to the various food components depending on its activity. So after an intense workout, I get protein to prevent catabolism and carbs to replenish glycogen so the muscles don't need to raid the protein stores. Hasn't seemed to hurt my body composition: 225lbs and around 6-8% BF.

I never feel a crash after the Endurox as I would if I just drank suger water in a resting state.

Just my 2cents.
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Old 06-06-2006, 02:14 PM   #20
Stephen Cooper
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Wow...thanks all for your responses. It's great to have so many involved and helpful people.

Dr. G...you mentioned your daily consumption of tea. I have a gourd filled with mate, which I continue to add hot water. It seems to keep my energy levels high, and keeps me focused.

Thanks again,
Coop
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