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Old 02-26-2006, 05:30 AM   #11
Kawika Harbottle
Member Kawika Harbottle is offline
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Location: Kane'ohe/Kahalu'u/Hilo/Mililani  HI
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Sarah, I enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. It is a breath of fresh air, imo.

Now pertaining to your explanation of masculinity and femininity distinctions here at CrossFit, what models of masculinity and femininity are you talking about? Is this referring to modern western, american mode or roles of men and women? Just wondering because it's funny when a site that has discussed paleo-diet may have forgotten male and female roles from the same era or from "tribes" who still practice male & female roles today. I guess you could say that I was intrigued back when I was in school to read/learn that women were hunters (good ones at that). I think the role has been changed in our modern western culture (I am thinking about a hundred yrs of modern culture). I won't point fingers, but from my cultural leaders it happened around the same time as Christianity's movement west from the americas. But what was far more exciting was to learn that male and female roles were understood and society would have fallen apart if one gender wasn't allowed to do more than just "raise the kids". As an individual the females probably would have outlasted the males. Mayeb that's where the change in roles got its kick.

By cultural leaders, I don't mean history class, television programming, or politicians. Just had to get make that clear.

Good read. Thank you Sarah.

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Old 02-26-2006, 06:54 AM   #12
Scott Kustes
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Kawika, I just finished reading The Primal Feast and walked away with the notion that males did most of the hunting and females did most of the gathering due to raising children. Since males did not take as much responsibility for the children, the women, while they may have been just as good of hunter, couldn't risk the injury that came from hunting. That is, hunting was an activity that could impinge upon a mother's ability to take care of her children. There are/were some tribes where hunting duties were split or "backwards", but for the most part, it appears that men did most of the hunting. Is that incorrect?
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Old 02-26-2006, 08:37 AM   #13
Larry Lindenman
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Sarah talks good (huh), I workout, eat meat, bring fresh kill home to woman. Beth and Jon are hippies (trust me on this) with an edge.
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Old 02-26-2006, 08:39 AM   #14
Brad Enns
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'Maleness' and 'Femaleness' is in the DNA. Yes, there are certain roles that society may impose, but raise two kids: They are born boy or girl. And both are of tremendous, equal, but different value to a community, family, and their world.
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Old 02-26-2006, 12:03 PM   #15
Stephen Solano
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1. I like homebrew
2. I like this hippie excercise stuff and
3. I am "the man".

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Old 02-26-2006, 12:18 PM   #16
Peter Queen
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Hey Jamila, remember on another post about two weeks ago I said that my wife calls CF a cult? So I used your response and said "CULT"-ure. Ha, she just rolled her eyes. I told her that until I empty out our entire bank account, wear sandals and a long gown, paint a flower on my cheek, buy a VW van and move west, she has nothing to worry about. :lol:
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Old 02-26-2006, 12:47 PM   #17
Eugene R. Allen
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Sarah - Master's student and researcher in what, sociology or psychology maybe? Your writing is wonderful and I will make an effort to pull your chain now and then to get you to engage like that again. Cogent, thoughtful and well constructed prose. You made my morning.

I read someplace that some well funded study concluded that boys and girls, men and women are different. Wow, I sure could have saved somebody a lot of money on that one. There are masculine women to be sure and plenty of men that live the Brokeback Mountain life, but generally speaking the notion of gender roles is fairly well established and the dominate theme in our culture and others. I am in the mainstream there to be sure as I am in my very establishment job as a cop.

Still, I shave my legs for triathlon and prance around (OK, not prance) in form fitting nylon racing togs in public. To balance that Dr. Phil appearance potential I have taken up CrossFit and my prancing in nylon activity has been curtailed a bit...though I still shave my legs; habit.

Hippie? In understand the comparison but hippie's always seemed to be skinny, dope smoking feaks to me when I was growing up. With exceptions of course...I didn't mean you Jon and Beth. Larry is right, they are hippies with an edge. I understand the counter-culture assignment though and with that I agree. I find myself making a specific point to do other than what everyone else is doing. I jumped on the Lance Armstrong yellow wrist band when they first came out and wore them until I saw that everyone else had one and I took it off. Long hair is in? I cut mine off. I always tuck in my shirt, wear a belt and I didn't watch the Superbowl even though the Seahawks were in it. Don't like football.

CrossFit is thus perfect for me. Just like triathlon as been. When you tell people what an full Ironman consists of they look at you like you have antlers. Describe Angie or other CF workouts and now those antlers have tinsel. I like that, we all like that. CrossFit will become if not the mainstream at least a powerfully compelling alternative for a larger and larger cross section of the athletic world. It is inevitable. My business card says that Resistance is Futile with a Borg theme, font and background. Due from the print shop soon. It is my belief that world wide CF acceptance is as inevitable as bad airline food.

Unlike Sarah my writing is not so cogent and does not have the same smooth flow point to point. I do a pretty good stir fry though.

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Old 02-26-2006, 02:29 PM   #18
Tim Weaver
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Before even reading your profile, I said to myself "she must be a college professor or doctoral candidate". Nobody else speaks/writes that way. :-)

" not so much what you are...but something you do."

What? Last time I looked at myself (naked) in a mirror, my gender (as well as my sex) was something I am. I didn't have to "do" anything to be or act as I do as the male head-of-household.

If we speak of the Gender Gap (in workplace pay, for example), it's understood that some/many/most women earn less than their equally talented male counterpart (choose your gov't funded study to pick your modifier) depending on the job., let's use the "gender" gap: the stereotypical "woman trapped in a man's body".

Would you posit that she/he would earn more money than her/his equally talented female counterpart? If so, why?

If, merely by being born a biological male, she/he earns more than her/his female co-worker, is this a gender or a sex issue? If she/he acts "less than male", would that likely influence her/his pay scale?

Unlike Eugene, I neither shave my legs nor prance/dance/move about in togs of any sort, nylon or otherwise.

I can do a mean stir-fry, yet can grill dead-animal flesh to near heavenly perfection. I drink beer and bourbon, and cannot stand white whine.

I hate house cats, but like the Big Cats like lions and pumas and such, because of the violent nature of their being.

I prefer female dogs over male dogs because male dogs feel the need to **** all over everything.

I put the seat back down.

I like guns and hunting and fishing, but was a bit taken aback when a buddy indicated they used anaesthetized pigs for a live-tissue lab for a tactical medic course he took. Yet, to me there is a place for all of God's creatures...right next to the mashed potatoes.

I generally dislike children, yet love playing with our neighbors' granddaughter, who is the cutest little thing.

I hate the Superbowl and think companies that spend the money to advertise during it are doing a disservice to their shareholders. I am a promoter of free-market capitalism.

Am I gender confused, even though I am biologically a male?


"Poster child for Gender Confused Middle Aged White Guys"
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Old 02-26-2006, 02:42 PM   #19
Kenneth Urakawa
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"Am I gender confused, even though I am biologically a male?"

Now that would be a business card.
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Old 02-26-2006, 03:02 PM   #20
Carl Herzog
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" not so much what you are...but something you do."

People who subscribe to this viewpoint invariably modify their position when they become parents. You can give your toddler boy all the dolls in the store and he will still push one across the floor saying "vroom vroom!"
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