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Old 08-27-2010, 09:26 AM   #1
Ross Dijulio
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Vibrams and barefoot running?

So i have a pair of vibrams. I was playing soccer with a few of my friends and starting throwing on my vibrams afterwards because i was going to stay up at the field for a little workout. A friend of mine (i'll call him "Joe") made a comment like "those are f'd up shoes." I went on explained why they were not f'd up shoes, explaining how they simulate barefoot running and put you naturally on your feet as opposed to running shoes which allow heel striking and what not.

"Joe" then started to get at it with me and inquired "what about those with bad feet and poor arches who need good support?" I sort of stumbled over this one because i wasn't entirely sure....so I just bs'd the question and answered it with a guess. I said "well most of the problems may have been caused by growing up with shoes that allow us to walk and run improperly and damage our feet."

A few days later the subject came up driving in the car to which "Joe" firmly stated that those shoes are "bull*&#$" which bothered me because he has not done any research.

I'm not sure if my answer was right but If someone could answer "Joe's" question for me it would be much appreciated. I am curious as to what vibram's do for people with bad feet/arches etc and that way I can explain it to him if it ever comes up again.

Thanks,
Ross

P.S. If you read the "Wearing more to sweat more post" "Joe" is the same kid...guess he has some problem with my training methodologies.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:40 AM   #2
Brian Bedell
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

1. Why do you care what Joe thinks?
2. They probably got bad arches from not using their natural arch or the muscles in their foot associated therewith b/c they've been walking around in shoes that do not allow the foot to be used in the way it has evolved to be used for millions of years. All of a sudden we need shoes/sneakers? Moreover, as I understand it, most runners switch into "race flats" or something similar for races. Which are more vff then xtraining sneaker.
3. Why do you care what Joe thinks?
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:43 AM   #3
Ryan Earle
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...t-for-children

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Quote:
What sort of damage? Research published in podiatry journal The Foot in 2007 suggests that structural and functional changes can result from the foot having to conform to the shape and constriction of a shoe, rather than being allowed to develop naturally. And the younger the foot, the greater the potential for damage.

Woodward illustrates the point perfectly, describing an incident in a restaurant where he was dining sans shoes. "A four-year-old noticed my bare feet and, taking the matter into her own hands, took off her own shoes and socks," he says. "On seeing this, the girl's mother warned: 'Put your shoes on - because if you don't, your feet will spread. And then you won't be able to wear shoes at all.'"

The human foot at birth is not a miniature version of an adult foot. In fact, it contains no bones at all and consists of a mass of cartilage, which, over a period of years, ossifies to become the 28 bones that exist in the adult human foot. This process is not complete until the late teens, so it is crucial that footwear - when worn - is well chosen.

"Most children's shoes ought to come with a government health warning," believes Byrne. "They are like awful little bricks - too stiff, too rigid, with no flexibility at the sole and too much heel raise. This is of particular concern with toddlers learning to walk, because it causes them to bounce and tip forward," she says.

Woodward agrees. "I have in my hand a Nike Air shoe for a three-year-old - quite an expensive item, I would guess. From the heel to the toe there is no 'bend' or 'give' in the sole. Completely rigid, this shoe will restrict movement of the forefoot to zero. Kids this age should be turning cartwheels, skipping, climbing trees, running around. A shoe like this would seriously restrict such playful physicality - make it less fun, less enjoyable."
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:46 AM   #5
Ryan Earle
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

Last one, promise

http://chrismcdougall.com/blog/2010/...running-shoes/ Link is work safe

Quote:
U.S. military researchers finally stepped in to settle the dust and resolve the running shoe debate. Their question: do running shoes cause the injuries they’re supposed to prevent?

Their answer: Hoo-wah! Or as they actually put it:

Researchers found almost no correlation at all between wearing the proper running shoes and avoiding injury. Injury rates were high among all the runners, but they were highest among the soldiers who had received shoes designed specifically for their foot types. If anything, wearing the “right” shoes for their particular foot shape had increased trainees’ chances of being hurt.

The most startling thing about this study is how much it resembles the same experience we’ve all had whenever we’ve walked into a running-shoe store. Thousands of military recruits had their arches and running styles assessed, then were given either a motion-control, stability, or neutral-cushioned shoe. Sound familiar? The result was a catastrophe: the s0-called science of shoe selection made things worse, not better. I don’t see how any running-shoe store can keep performing that video gait analysis voodoo after this, or how any magazine that aspires to journalism and not just ad revenue can continue putting out those shoe reviews. Even the Pentagon now knows that cushioned running shoes aren’t just useless — they’re dangerous.

And the worst offender?

Across the board, motion-control shoes were the most injurious for the runners. Many overpronators, who, in theory, should have benefited from motion-control shoes, complained of pain and missed training days after wearing them, as did a number of the runners with normal feet and every single underpronating runner assigned to the motion-control shoes.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:49 AM   #6
S.S.
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Dijulio View Post
So i have a pair of vibrams. I was playing soccer with a few of my friends and starting throwing on my vibrams afterwards because i was going to stay up at the field for a little workout. A friend of mine (i'll call him "Joe") made a comment like "those are f'd up shoes." I went on explained why they were not f'd up shoes, explaining how they simulate barefoot running and put you naturally on your feet as opposed to running shoes which allow heel striking and what not.

"Joe" then started to get at it with me and inquired "what about those with bad feet and poor arches who need good support?" I sort of stumbled over this one because i wasn't entirely sure....so I just bs'd the question and answered it with a guess. I said "well most of the problems may have been caused by growing up with shoes that allow us to walk and run improperly and damage our feet."

A few days later the subject came up driving in the car to which "Joe" firmly stated that those shoes are "bull*&#$" which bothered me because he has not done any research.

I'm not sure if my answer was right but If someone could answer "Joe's" question for me it would be much appreciated. I am curious as to what vibram's do for people with bad feet/arches etc and that way I can explain it to him if it ever comes up again.

Thanks,
Ross

P.S. If you read the "Wearing more to sweat more post" "Joe" is the same kid...guess he has some problem with my training methodologies.
Basically you treat bad feet and crushed arches like any other injury. You work up to it by gently incorporating full range of motion (or in this case barefoot) until it gets stronger. Some people will actually build their arches back up and completely eliminate their problems in this way.

Just transitioning into VFF/barefoot with no graduation period is as bad as maxing out on back squats with a bad knee.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:53 AM   #7
Ryan Earle
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Basically you treat bad feet and crushed arches like any other injury. You work up to it by gently incorporating full range of motion (or in this case barefoot) until it gets stronger. Some people will actually build their arches back up and completely eliminate their problems in this way.

Just transitioning into VFF/barefoot with no graduation period is as bad as maxing out on back squats with a bad knee.
Since switching to VFF for the past two years I have lost an entire shoe size. In Born to Run, the author reports about someone who also had their footsize change as a result of barefoot training.

source: http://chrismcdougall.com/blog/2010/...heel-striking/ (worksafe)

Quote:
Curiously, Webb was once known for appreciating the benefits of a bare foot. When I interviewed him back in 2005, he told me that in high school, he was a size 12 with a flat foot and constant injuries. After his coach got him doing barefoot drills, his feet began to transform: by the time he graduated, Webb told me, he was a size 9 with a raised arch and no more ailments.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:13 AM   #8
John Stone
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Dijulio View Post
I'm not sure if my answer was right but If someone could answer "Joe's" question for me it would be much appreciated. I am curious as to what vibram's do for people with bad feet/arches etc and that way I can explain it to him if it ever comes up again.

Thanks,
Ross
I spent most of my adult (post-military) life wearing expensive orthopedics.

I have completely (and I mean, completely) flat feet. I used to not like to run, because I'd get some serious pain after running -- and if I tried to run multiple times per week, my ankles would swell up to the size of large grapefruits (I have permanent bruising under the skin from this), my knees and hips would get injured / joints would swell up and bruise etc.

I started running in VFF's in February, and have had no injuries or pain since then. It was a rather amazing experience, for me, being able to run without being hobbled / crippled by pain so bad that I would be unable to walk the next day. For the first couple months, running without pain was so unique I was running 5-7 days a week. Now that the novelty has worn off a bit, I still run as a part of my WODs (actually I do all WODs and all lifts with my VFF's on -- just can't imagine doing anything without them).

All in all, as a person with pancake feet, VFFs are the best "orthopedics" I've ever had. My feet have strengthened to the point where I am no longer in pain after a day at work (I used to be in a lot of pain every day, just from walking around at work).

I usually don't get very passionate about "stuff," but VFFs were life-changing for me. I wouldn't even be able to CF if it weren't for them.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #9
Allen Tluczek
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

What is likely better for you- doing something your body has adapted to naturally over millions of years, or doing something that a marketing company has decided in the last 20 years you have to do so they can earn a profit?

VFF are great, and awesome, and I am going to get rid of a number of my "traditional" shoes and replace them with Vibrams, but barefoot is even better.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:09 AM   #10
Jason R O'Dell
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Re: Vibrams and barefoot running?

I'm seeing VFFs become more of a fashion statement than anything. I see a lot of people wearing them around just because. I'll ask them "Do you use those for running or lifting?" and they look at me like I grew an extra head and are like "No, they're just my shoes. I think they look cool." or "They're different, so I like them."

I still have no interest in wearing them though.
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