CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-28-2010, 05:40 PM   #1
Chris Ross
Member Chris Ross is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brisbane  Queensland
Posts: 64
power training

Hi

I have a question regarding power training.
Most sports require max power efforts and/or power endurance efforts.

Power involes a combination of strength and speed.

However does power training alone (eg. if you were to train cleans, snatches, and C&Js for max power & say burpees or similar for power endurance) would this also improve your strength? ie. can going straight to power training negate the need to develop a strength base first?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 06:00 PM   #2
Dimitri Dziabenko
Banned Dimitri Dziabenko is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto  ON
Posts: 1,080
Re: power training

You're not going to get around doing both. Power depends on maximal strength: you can't clean a weight you cannot front squat (or deadlift).
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 07:19 PM   #3
Chris Ross
Member Chris Ross is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brisbane  Queensland
Posts: 64
Re: power training

sure, i agree.

but if you were to start with a weight you could manage, let's use the clean as an example for arguments sake.

If you work on doing 5 sets of 3 reps of a clean with a weight you can handle.

Then over the next few weeks and beyond I would expect that your ability to clean more weight would develop, and you would therefore then increase the weight you are using whilst maintaining the same or similar set rep schemes.

So in effect you have increased your power output, ergo strength should have increased too.

Is this likely to occur or would you hit a ceiling quite quickly compared to developing a strength base first?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 09:14 AM   #4
Jon Cowie
Member Jon Cowie is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Portsmouth  Hampshire UK
Posts: 99
Re: power training

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf...ong_Enough.pdf WFS

Rip has written an article which broaches the subject; the strength increases would likely be a novice's carryover gain (any training will improve other aspects of fitness in the untrained), but eventually you will reach the limits of your technique (cleans being a technique-dependent lift) and the only way to improve will be to increase the strength with which you apply your technique to the bar.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 09:26 AM   #5
S.S.
Departed S.S. is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
 
Posts: 3,800
Re: power training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ross View Post
sure, i agree.

but if you were to start with a weight you could manage, let's use the clean as an example for arguments sake.

If you work on doing 5 sets of 3 reps of a clean with a weight you can handle.

Then over the next few weeks and beyond I would expect that your ability to clean more weight would develop, and you would therefore then increase the weight you are using whilst maintaining the same or similar set rep schemes.

So in effect you have increased your power output, ergo strength should have increased too.

Is this likely to occur or would you hit a ceiling quite quickly compared to developing a strength base first?


5x3 cleans is a fairly poor way to increase one's clean.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 01:30 PM   #6
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: power training

Power is strength.

Why are you even asking about this? Are you looking for an excuse not to squat etc. and to simply do Olympic lifts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 08:31 PM   #7
Jamie J. Skibicki
Member Jamie J. Skibicki is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh  PA
Posts: 8,841
Re: power training

^^^^

FOr the most part. How much do you lift (squat, dead, snatch and clean) and how long have you been training?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 02:37 AM   #8
Chris Ross
Member Chris Ross is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brisbane  Queensland
Posts: 64
Re: power training

thanks for the replies.

No, not looking to avoid the big lifts (they've actually become quite dear to me ).

I'm asking because of sports like boxing/kick boxing where the lifting of heavy weights had traditionally been shunned.

Typically the only 'strength' training they would do would be bodyweight exercises as a base which would then morph into power bodyweight exercises for power endurance such as plyo pushups, squat jumps, burpees etc.

So basically they are seeking to improve their power and power endurance without really developing strength beyond bodyweight only resistance. They are put a high premium of speed training, which I guess could compensate for this lack of raw max strength.

Of course the nett result is still athletes that are extremely powerful and can deliver knockout power for many rounds, despite having only moderate max strength levels.

So is there a missing link in their training or am I missing something here?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 03:58 AM   #9
Kevin Wolfe
Member Kevin Wolfe is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Middletown  PA
Posts: 59
Re: power training

I think there is a misunderstanding when you talk about "power". I think you are talking about explosive strength versus raw "lift heavy stuff" strength. This type of speed would definitely help with martial arts. Others can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that developing explosive strenght is all in how you train. You can't develop explosive strentgh using 1 rep maxes because you can't move the weight fast enough. Pick a weight that would be heavy yet still enable you to move it quickly for a few reps.

Does this make sense?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 05:27 AM   #10
Ryan Earle
Member Ryan Earle is offline
 
Ryan Earle's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lynchburg  VA
Posts: 166
Re: power training

A good video on this topic: http://ericcressey.com/the-absolute-...peed-continuum (work safe) Absolute Strength to Absolute Speed Continuum
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Complex Training for Power Dayne Williams Fitness 9 06-20-2010 12:02 PM
Roadbike power training Kurt A Gross Fitness 6 07-30-2009 08:04 AM
Power Training? Sean J Hunter Fitness 15 07-07-2009 08:28 PM
Training for Power without Olympic Lifts Ryan Whitley Fitness 72 04-10-2009 08:36 AM
Speed/power training Andy Armstrong Exercises 13 05-29-2008 04:29 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:55 AM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.