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Old 11-18-2007, 11:23 AM   #1
Robert Olajos
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ketogenic diet for those with cancer

I'm a 33 y/o male with non-Hodgkins lymphoma, diagnosed a month ago. I've been CFing for 16 months and eating an eyeball version of the Zone for about a year. At the Toronto cert. last month, Coach told me to look into ketogenic diets. Something about cancer cells only being able to metabolize glucose, not protein or fat--the idea being to starve your cancer, but not your body. I've not been able to find much info on the internet, except for one study done in Germany with two patients which yielded mixed results. Every cancer diet site I've seen recommends using a version of the Food Pyramid (or for us Canadians, the Canada Food Guide).

So this raises a few questions:

1. Can anyone comment on the merits of a ketogenic diet vs. Zone vs. the Food Pyramid for someone with cancer?

2. Does anyone have references?

3. I currently eat a diet of 50% fat (mostly mono and polyunsaturated), 30% protein (fish, chicken, soy), and 20% carbs (probably 1/2 veggies and 1/2 fruits and a little bit of oatmeal). Is this ketogenic?

4. Any other comments on cancer and nutrition are more than welcome, e.g. the merits of organic vs. non-organic, etc.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:36 AM   #2
Barry Cooper
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

Here's a good w/f safe link: http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/newslet...-no04-pg2.html

Actually, I'll leave that, but this one is better (W/F safe) http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/jyelo...ed/topic8.html

From here: http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/jyelon/lowcarb.med/

(w/f safe)

There are a number of links on the main page, too.

Best of luck.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:14 PM   #3
Patrick Donnelly
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

http://*************/?p=18 (Work/Family Safe.)

I love Firefox bookmarks.


For ketosis to occur, you usually need to be around <100g of carbs per day. You can test if you are in ketosis using a urine test strip like KetoStix.
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:22 PM   #4
Paul Symes
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

This might interest you

Link not family safe
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...ad.php?t=27711
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:50 PM   #5
Jay Cohen
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

Robert;

Patrick provided the name, now contact Rob Wolf, ASAP.
He is the go to person for this question.
BTW, I follow a Ketogenic diet, though I can't get the dang strips to turn purple, I'm thinking too much coffee, fluids thourgh out the day.
You can see some of my eating patterns via the Fitday link at bottom of my post.
Good Luck and please contact Rob.
BTW, CF did an interview with Rob either yesterday or Friday on home page.
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:28 AM   #6
Robert Olajos
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

Thanks all for the links. They have pointed me in the right direction.

Jay, your FitDay postings are very useful. How did you learn the ketogenic diet? Most of the internet resources on this pertain to pediatric epileptics who are on a medically-supervised ketogenic diet. I need a Dummies Guide to the Ketogenic Diet. Is there a forum? Meal plans? A book? Or am I destined to bump along in the dark, picking up a little bit of info here and a little bit there?

Forgive my impatience. I don't feel like I have the time to grow into this the way I grew into the Zone over many months. I have cancer now, I'm in chemo now, and I've got a lot of reading to do on a huge number of topics, diet being only one. However, diet is the most difficult to find resources on.

That being said, I *think* I can intuitively figure out what foods belong in a KD and which ones don't.
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:40 AM   #7
Jay Cohen
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Olajos View Post
Thanks all for the links. They have pointed me in the right direction.

Jay, your FitDay postings are very useful. How did you learn the ketogenic diet? Most of the internet resources on this pertain to pediatric epileptics who are on a medically-supervised ketogenic diet. I need a Dummies Guide to the Ketogenic Diet. Is there a forum? Meal plans? A book? Or am I destined to bump along in the dark, picking up a little bit of info here and a little bit there?
Robert;

All my direction was from Performance Menu and reading the forum. Cut carbs starting today, up the fat, balance your protein needs, you're good to go.
You might consider dropping Dr. G and email, he's very good along with Rob Wolf.

BTW, there are low carb forums, might suggest that you read Protein Power for Life Plan, and Lights Out. Both suggestions from Rob Wolf.
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:27 AM   #8
Nicolas Castonguay
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

I didn't read all the replies, but here's is what I remember on ketogenic diet (although you really should go ask on bodybuilding.com, there is a section only for ketogenic diet). If you want to enter ketosis state, you have to have less than 5% of daily intake from carbs. Eat only fat and proteins (meat mostly, olive oil and such, use peanuts scarcely). Of course you also need to do carb loading every weekend, but I do not think it would be necessary, and if ketosis tate really helps to starve the cancer cells, I'd say it wouldn't be smart to do it. Then again I'm not expert at all so you really should go post on bb.com

Lastly, sorry to hear about it man, I hope it goes well for you


Example of foods: Sausage, bacon, all types of meat, olive oil, cheese, all types of fish, I think natural peanut butter has very very little carb, but I'm not sure.

Anyways here is the link of the bb.com forum:
- http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13 (3 subforums on keto diets)
- http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4145823 (a lot of info on the subject)

Last edited by Nicolas Castonguay : 11-19-2007 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:43 AM   #9
David Wallach
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

Jay,

Your carbs are too high. Limit them to about 30/day and never more than 50... at 30/day you should see deep purple on your first test of the day after waking.

Using r-ALA to partition those carbs while dropping into Ketosis will help a lot and move your conversion from refeeds down to below 24 hours. PM me for details on this if you are interested.

Robert,

To drop into ketosis get your diet for the first 48hours down to as close to zero carbs as you can, and perform a full body depletion workout as much as you can safely manage. After your ketostix register pink or better, you can up your carbs to about 30-40/day, but test now and again to be sure you are still in the 'pink'.

cheers,


Chef.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:48 AM   #10
Gerhard Lavin
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Re: ketogenic diet for those with cancer

Do a google on Lyle McDonald. He has written loads on keto diets.
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