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Old 11-06-2007, 08:31 AM   #11
Tim Donahey
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Dale F. Saran View Post
As a follow up, I don't know if Carrie is soliciting articles, but I heard through the grapevine she might be. So, Tim, you might consider putting this information together and submitting it. I agree with Peter that it really would be a great Journal article. (Mods, stop me if I'm overstepping). And I know for a fact Coach and Lauren pay people to write their articles. If nothing else, maybe a free T-shirt?

Jes' my 2 cents, but I really think that is something you've done there.
Very cool. How may I contact Carrie?

Thanks Dale!
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:08 AM   #12
Mike Griffith
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

Tim,

Just so I am clear 1 cycle is one workout?
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:24 AM   #13
Steven Low
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Mike Griffith View Post
Tim,

Just so I am clear 1 cycle is one workout?
I'm pretty sure it's a week otherwise he could've just said workout.

Although the OP should designate whether it's a microcycle or mesocycle or whatever cycle you're trying to say.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:03 PM   #14
Tim Donahey
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Tim Donahey
I'm not going to lay out the entire model so you'll need to read it if you care to follow along. It can be found, in its' entirity, here (WFS): http://www.performancemenu.com/zen/i...products_id=61
It's one cycle as referenced by the ME Blackbox article (12 days).

Well worth the $2.50 to purchase and read.

Last edited by Tim Donahey : 11-06-2007 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:40 PM   #15
Tim Donahey
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Although the OP should designate whether it's a microcycle or mesocycle or whatever cycle you're trying to say.
You're right, and if I get the go ahead for an article I'll go into greater depth on this.

In terms of the Black Box Template described here:

Microcycle: 12 day period; (ie. CF-DE-CF-REST-CF-ME-CF-REST-CF-ME-CF-REST)
Mesocycle: 36 days, 3 microcycles
Macrocycle: 144 days, 4 mesocycles

A beginner/intermediate will make the greatest gains every microcycle, an advanced every mesocycle, and an elite every macrocycle

Last edited by Tim Donahey : 11-06-2007 at 05:52 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-07-2007, 01:37 AM   #16
Peter Dell'Orto
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Tim Donahey View Post
It's one cycle as referenced by the ME Blackbox article (12 days).

Well worth the $2.50 to purchase and read.
Just out of curiousity, does the MEBB article have more information than the article in Performance Menu vol 1 issue 3 (April 2005)? I have that issue, I'm wondering if my $2.50 will get me more than that article had or if I'd be re-buying something I already own.

I have some questions about laying out a ME/DE template, but before that I want to make sure I've got all the MEBB information I need.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:39 AM   #17
Tim Donahey
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Peter Dell'Orto View Post
Just out of curiousity, does the MEBB article have more information than the article in Performance Menu vol 1 issue 3 (April 2005)? I have that issue, I'm wondering if my $2.50 will get me more than that article had or if I'd be re-buying something I already own.

I have some questions about laying out a ME/DE template, but before that I want to make sure I've got all the MEBB information I need.
The meat of the Black Box is in the issue you have, ME Blackbox Part I. The micro/meso/macro cycle that I reference is from Part I, also called "XYZ" Blackbox. The four part article linked above has additional templates for athletes and masters, also a five day rotation template, 5x5/5x3/5x1 days, and a case study.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:28 PM   #18
Peter Dell'Orto
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Tim Donahey View Post
The meat of the Black Box is in the issue you have, ME Blackbox Part I. The micro/meso/macro cycle that I reference is from Part I, also called "XYZ" Blackbox. The four part article linked above has additional templates for athletes and masters, also a five day rotation template, 5x5/5x3/5x1 days, and a case study.
Okay, thanks. I think I'll still pick up the BBME combo article, it's cheap enough. I think your followup posts have answered my initial questions.

Here's my preliminary layout. I'm not trying to hijack your thread. But I figure if I lay out what I'm thinking of you can both help me out and figure out how to head off these kind of questions in your article.

Essentially, I was thinking of structuring a week like this.

Sunday - Kendo (morning), WOD & BJJ (afternoon).
Monday - ME, kickboxing
Tuesday - WOD, kickboxing
Wednesday - Kendo or MMA grappling.
Thursday - DE, BJJ
Friday - WOD, sparring or solo MMA skill work.
Saturday - "Rest."

My concern laying out a schedule was how to mix in ME and DE work on a single exercise, but still be able to repeat that exercise often enough to make and build on gains. I'm thinking of a split of exercises that's basically legs or full-body/push/pull:

Legs (full body) - Deadlift, either Squats or Power Cleans.
Push - Shoulder Press, Bench Press
Pull - Weighted Chinups, some kind of rows (probably dumbbell one-arm or Pendlay)

My thought is that I should do whatever exercise I do for ME the same week for DE, rotating exercises for each week. So if week one is Deadlifting, I do an ME day Monday, DE Thursday, at 5-5-5-3-3-3 the first time it comes up, 3-3-3-1-1-1 the next time it comes up, the difference between ME and DE being the weight and thus bar speed. The problem is the number of exercises...if I do, say, Deadlifts, Shoulder Press, and Weighted Chinups, each will be 3 weeks apart from the previous cycle, and after 2 cycles (5-5-5-3-3-3 and 3-3-3-1-1-1) I'll change exercises and not DL, SP, or do WCs for 6 weeks. That seems like a long layoff - I'd do a total of 2 ME and 2 DE days per exercise in a 6 week period, and then not do that exercise again for 6 week cycle. That's really the snag that hit me when I first tried to lay out a ME/DE mix in the first place. I've got a restricted schedule, I wasn't sure how to mix it all in there productively.

Thanks,

Peter
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:15 PM   #19
Tim Donahey
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

Peter, I'll take a closer look tomorrow when I'm more awake, but here's my quick take on it.

I would recommend trying to weight train Mon/Weds/Fri, but sticking to your parameters I would either do:

WEEK 1:
Mon: ME SQUAT
Thurs: ME PUSH, ME PULL

WEEK 2:
Mon: DE SQUAT
Thurs: DE PUSH, DE PULL

WEEK 3:
Mon: ME DEADLIFT
Thurs: ME PUSH, ME PULL

WEEK 4:
Mon: DE DEADLIFT
Thurs: DE PUSH, DE PULL

REPEAT

or

WEEK 1:
Mon: ME DEADLIFT
Thurs: DE POWER CLEAN

WEEK 2:
Mon: ME PRESS
Thurs: DE THRUSTER

WEEK 3:
Mon: ME CHIN-UP
Thurs: DE POWER CLEAN

WEEK 4:
Mon: ME SQUAT
Thurs: DE SQUAT CLEAN

WEEK 5:
Mon: ME BENCH PRESS
Thurs: DE BENCH PRESS

WEEK 6:
Mon: ME PENDLAY ROWS
Thurs: DE POWER CLEAN

REPEAT
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:41 PM   #20
Peter Dell'Orto
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Re: Dynamic Effort, Max Effort, Volume and Constructing a Black Box for Strength & Po

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Originally Posted by Tim Donahey View Post
Peter, I'll take a closer look tomorrow when I'm more awake, but here's my quick take on it.

I would recommend trying to weight train Mon/Weds/Fri, but sticking to your parameters I would either do:
Yeah, M/W/Fri is just too hard to manage, too few weights and too many people using them. I've managed to stake out Monday and Thursday by virtue of seniority, precedent, and showing up before anyone else. Wed/Fri the weights are in use when I can go.

Thanks for the two breakdowns. I may change the exercises a little, or swap them to Monday Push/Pull and Thursday Squat/Legs because of time factors, but it is tremendously helpful to have a concrete set of suggestions to work from. Thank you.

Last edited by Peter Dell'Orto : 11-07-2007 at 10:01 PM. Reason: forgot a word
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