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Old 05-16-2012, 05:33 AM   #1
Patrick McCarty
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2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

not sure if this thread belongs here. If not, it will be moved.

I saw evidence of several female competitors this last weekend who did not make it past WOD 2 at regionals.

What happened in the system if a person could make regionals but not make it past the second workout without being a DNF?

One of two things: 1. A huge disparity in the programming (I could speak on that for hours) or 2. So much cheating to get into regionals. If you can't clean #135, how did you make it to regionals?

Thoughts?
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:43 AM   #2
Eric Montgomery
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

Because 30 heavy hang cleans aren't easy after a 2K row and 50 pistols, and because that wasn't their first workout that day. I saw plenty of very fit women struggle with that workout at SoCal last weekend. Aside from open workout #2, none of the qualifying workouts tested strength as much as they tested conditioning.

I'm sure there is cheating going on somewhere, but I'd say it's pretty rare.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:50 AM   #3
Patrick McCarty
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

I am not sure I am ready to buy that yet. A strong number of the females popped through those cleans with very little problem - at least, making the minimum.

Was that workout DESIGNED to whittle?

It seems like the top 60 females in an entire 6-state area should be able to easily get past the second workout. Something isn't adding up.
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:04 AM   #4
Eric Montgomery
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

Well yeah, some of them will get through a workout easier. That's why they're called the winners.

I watched enough of the individual and team competitions over the weekend (and know enough of those people from my 3 years living in San Diego and doing all kinds of CF events) to be able to say pretty confidently that any potential cheating would have been the exception and not the norm.

I'm looking at a few of the Regionals and, aside from Canada West, I'm only seeing a few DNFs in each one for that second workout. It's not like it was widespread. Keep in mind also that there was a time cap on all the workouts--DNF doesn't mean they couldn't have finished with another minute or two, it may just mean they didn't get through enough reps by the time cap to get a 17+ time.
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:19 AM   #5
Patrick McCarty
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
any potential cheating would have been the exception and not the norm.
That was only one of my potential explanations. I am just asking the question here. The other possible explanation is the disparity in programming. Opens geared for lighter faster metconners and regionals for stronger larger athletes.

It's entirely possible that an athlete did so well on 12.1 because of excellent lung capacity and so-so on the remainder of the opens wods, still made regionals, and just didn't belong there.

Or would you posit that every athlete who made it belonged at regionals?

I saw one girl in 2011 in the "100s" workout that never made it past the pullups. How do you make it to regionals if you can't make it past the pullups in that wod?
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:18 AM   #6
Bryan Kemper
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

The Open programming was designed for the 99%. The Regionals were designed for the 1%.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:50 AM   #7
Rebecca Roth
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCarty View Post
I am not sure I am ready to buy that yet. A strong number of the females popped through those cleans with very little problem - at least, making the minimum.

Was that workout DESIGNED to whittle?

It seems like the top 60 females in an entire 6-state area should be able to easily get past the second workout. Something isn't adding up.

Even despite the slightly disproportionate weights on the men's vs women's side of the events (seems heavier on the mens, much like the snatch workout in the open), the weights for women are going to be just brutal for anyone that isn't constantly bulking & running LP. My coach is very petite, so while I don't doubt her ability (I totally believe she will make it through event 2), I can't help but fear for her. Because of her size she is going to be looking at both a much longer row time (~9 min) than the taller ladies AND having to hang clean more than 20lb over body weight... that's a terrible task for anyone.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:57 AM   #8
Eric Montgomery
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCarty View Post
That was only one of my potential explanations. I am just asking the question here. The other possible explanation is the disparity in programming. Opens geared for lighter faster metconners and regionals for stronger larger athletes.

It's entirely possible that an athlete did so well on 12.1 because of excellent lung capacity and so-so on the remainder of the opens wods, still made regionals, and just didn't belong there.

Or would you posit that every athlete who made it belonged at regionals?

I saw one girl in 2011 in the "100s" workout that never made it past the pullups. How do you make it to regionals if you can't make it past the pullups in that wod?
Oh I agree with the bold part, I definitely saw that with last year's workouts. Almost nothing that involved handling heavy weight. And this year seemed even more so with open workouts that were geared towards encouraging max participation...i.e. max burpees or the snatch ladder that started at a very low weight, which pretty much anyone could do.

Sure, one or two people probably cheated, but I doubt it was widespread. I'd say almost every one who made it to regionals belonged there on the basis of doing well on the open workouts....whether the open workouts were the best test of fitness is a whole 'nother question. I'd say at the top it doesn't matter a whole lot seeing how the Rich Fronings and Dan Baileys and Kristen Clevers probably would have come out near the top regardless of what the workouts were, but when you get in the 40-60 range in a regional it's a lot more likely that some of those people have one or two significant holes in their overall fitness. Those holes are more likely to be exposed at regionals due to the workouts being harder.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:14 AM   #9
Joey Shishineh
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
The Open programming was designed for the 99%. The Regionals were designed for the 1%.
Yes. Hopefully we will see a more balanced Open and Regionals next year... Even with one 'heavy' WOD, they could have prevented this happening at regionals.
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:57 PM   #10
Michael Kelley
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Re: 2012 Opens vs. Regionals Athletes

What's to prevent? I don't see a problem with the open programming in the least, other than that they could have gotten better gradation on the snatch WOD by breaking it into even more weights, instead of 30 rep bites. The Open qualified people to come to Regionals, and it got people excited about participating in the competition. That's a GOOD thing. Stick a bunch of huge deadlifts in there to make the meatheads happy and eliminate thousands of people from entering a score they can feel good about? Why? It benefits absolutely nobody, and the folks in the 40-60 ranking in the Open still don't advance to the Games.
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