CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Nutrition
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-02-2007, 07:49 AM   #11
Robert Wolf
Member Robert Wolf is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chico  CA
Posts: 2,669
Garrett-

That's correct regarding the eggs in avidin.
That's what the "Rocky-Balboa-esque" proportions statement was about :biggrin:

Thanks for the kind words Greg, Sam (you too Kevin), Nikki emailed me and asked me to comment on this so I did. I need to give it some thought as to whether this will be a regular thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2007, 09:05 AM   #12
Daniel Miller
Member Daniel Miller is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St Louis  MO
Posts: 124
Can't phytates also be acting as antioxidants in the GI tract and thereby protect us from dangerously high levels of Fe2++?

I also wonder if this (high levels of active phytates in the GI tract) is easily correlated with people who have low serum Fe, Ca, and Zn. There are many causes of low Fe, Ca, and Zn...if someone is eating raw grain then I would think it is a problem, but phytases (enzymes that break down phytases) are specifically activated by sprouting, yeast leavening, and cooking.

In addition, nuts have pretty high amounts of phytic acid, and if eaten with fruit (fiber) would a standard paleo diet (that includes lots of raw nuts) be at the same alleged risk?

I don't mean to always be barking up the same tree on this board by asking questions about paleo, I am just genuinely curious and have lots of questions about nutrition.

Thanks for all the thoughtful posts on this thread!

-Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2007, 12:24 AM   #13
Nikki Young
Member Nikki Young is offline
 
Nikki Young's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canberra  ACT
Posts: 458
Thanks Robb! :D

I'm going to need to do more thorough reading on all that stuff you talked about so i have a better understanding! Thanks for your reply :happy:
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2007, 03:44 PM   #14
Charlie Jackson
Banned Charlie Jackson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Santa Carlos  New Mexico
Posts: 204
I think it's tough to construct an argument for the inclusion of these foods other than "I want to eat this".


How about the fact that those foods are loaded with nutrients? You only focus on a small negative, you reach an erroneous conclusion. Focus on the benefits as well and you'll have the argument for including the foods in your diet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2007, 04:57 PM   #15
Robert Wolf
Member Robert Wolf is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chico  CA
Posts: 2,669
LOL!
Good to see that charlie is still contrarian and clueless.

So charlie. If grains are not fortified and they make up more than say 30-40% of the diet diseases such as pellagra ensue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellagra

You need either fortification, meat or veggies in addition to grains of ALL types to not produce similar effects...so Charles, where's the nutritional bonanza?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2007, 05:16 PM   #16
Steve Liberati
Affiliate Steve Liberati is offline
 
Steve Liberati's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pennsauken  NJ
Posts: 1,649
Wow THEE Mr Robert Wolf? Welcome back brutha!

Awesome job what you have done turning Performance Menu into one of the go-to sites on the net for top notch fitness and nutrition info. Highly recommend others to check out his board.

Ohh yeah ...don't mind Charlie. Still his ignorant self. Nothing has changed there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2007, 02:04 AM   #17
David Wood
Departed David Wood is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
 
Posts: 3,303
Robb: Good to see your posts!

Folks: Charlie *is* a contrarian, and he aggravates me sometimes (not much more so than some other members), but a contrary viewpoint, intelligently expressed, can be good to have.

He's not always *perfectly* polite, but he stays within our AUP.

So, please, lay off the descriptions of "ignorant" and "clueless".

Charlie, you might attempt to couch your general disagreement in more polite terms, and/or offer evidence (even if only based on personal experience) supporting your positions. Otherwise, you run the risk of moving from "useful challenging viewpoint" to "troll".
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2007, 04:58 AM   #18
Daniel Miller
Member Daniel Miller is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St Louis  MO
Posts: 124
There was an article in the New York Times a few weeks ago that discussed something quite relevant to this thread. The topic was a problem associated with the hierarchy in teaching hospitals across the country and arises from when a medical student (or in this case a less credentialed) individual thinks that an attending physician or a resident is making a profound error in terms of patient care but due to the fact that the medical students future is partially in the hands of that senior person, does not speak up.

In this case, I am not a credentialed member of this board, but I am going to speak up, because I agree with Charlie that an erroneous conclusion is being draw; one that contradicts biochemical realities and is more myth than science or fact.

I am still not convinced in the least that phytates in particular or grains in general when consumed as part of a diet with lots of vegetables, fruits, lean proteins, and healthy fats pose any threat at all. As I said in the prior thread, that received no response at all, phytases essentially oxidize phytates and this happens best with sprouting and through leavening with yeast..but also through cooking.

To use an evolutionary based argument, it could also be the case that we began eating soaked legumes and grains to obtain necessary energy, there was a simultaneous sequestering of dangerously high amounts of Fe, Zn, and Mg. This could have made our ancestors better off than while consuming lots of nuts and fruits (nuts having lots of phytic acid).

I would agree completely if we were talking about processed or refined grains, and pinned more blame on the 1950 industrial revolution within the food industry. But whole grain, when cooked or sprouted is NOT the same as refined grain. Wikipedia this if you don't believe this.

Did you know that the word 'Medicine' came from the root 'med', which means taking appropriate measaures...the English words 'moderate' and 'modest' are also descendants of med. I think this carries instructions long since forgotten when talking to most doctors or anyone that gives nutritional advice. I myself believe much from Chinese and aruvedic medicine is relavant. Both teach that food can be like medicine. I bring this etymology up because I think that anyone who gives nutritional advice should think seriously about these etymological cousins of the word medicine.

Best.
-Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2007, 05:54 AM   #19
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
Daniel,
One of the issues with Chinese and Ayurvedic nutritional prescriptions, notwithstanding the fact that they "developed" among a specific people, is the undeniable fact that the foods available today are almost nothing like the foods available then--in macronutrient, micronutrient, GMOs, etc.

I believe that, and I was told that by one of my Chinese MD acupuncture instructors.

I use food as medicine every day. Ridding the diet of grains is one of my most powerful tools.

I'm not a huge fan of nuts and seeds (I'll eat them, I'd much rather use them sparingly).
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2007, 07:05 AM   #20
Greg Battaglia
Member Greg Battaglia is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Springfield  PA
Posts: 468
Daniel, interesting stuff. I've considered this a bit before as well. Most Paleo books trash grains completely (which I agree with) but fail to mention that nuts/seeds also contain high levels of anti-nutrients. They also fail to mention that vegetables contain quite a nice shot of anti nutrients, especially in their raw form. However, I do think that MOST people would improve their health by cutting out grains. That has been my experience personally, Dr.G has noted the same consistently with patients, and countless others have found the same. Couple this with the biochemistry behind it (anti-nutrients bind to minerals, preventing proper absorption) and evolutionary theory and you've got yourself a pretty darn good argument against grains. In my opinion (and what seems to be emerging from the science), the only reason sprouted grains happen to be more healthful, or less damaging, more appropriately}, is because they contain the bran and the germ, which lowers the GI compared with refined varieties. Just to be fair, Clarence Bass is a big advocate of sprouted grains and clearly he is a complete animal in his 60's, so that could be some anecdotal support for your argument. Until clear studies are done comparing the effects of healthy diets w/grains and healthy diets w/out grains (if that ever happens) it all comes down to the black box method. Whenever people ask me for dietary advice I tell them simply: eat nothing but whole, unprocessed foods like sprouted grains, raw dairy, clean meats, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and fruit and tinker around until you find what combination makes you feel, look, and perform best. More times than not they end up more or less paleoish.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lit Review of value-added nutrients in grass fed products Craig Cooper Nutrition 0 10-18-2006 03:56 PM
OTC anti-inflamatory / painreliever Joseph Hart Injuries 17 04-03-2006 07:22 PM
Oils and nutrients Chris Longley Nutrition 5 01-28-2006 02:44 PM
Natural anti-inflammatories Todd Learn Nutrition 13 09-04-2005 04:58 AM
Anti Inflammatory Drugs Bobbi Beglau Salvini Starting 16 02-18-2005 06:13 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:49 PM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.