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Old 04-23-2007, 02:41 PM   #31
John de la Garza
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Sorry, forgot to address this:

you say "
I'd be willing to wager that you won't live much longer than a typical mountain Swiss who eats cheese, fresh rye bread, raw milk, and cooked meat. People who eat like this have an incredibly low rate of cancer, heart disease, and diabetes. "

Are you saying because I eat only raw animal products and raw fruits but no veggies I will have the same health problems as those who live on bread and cheese?

if this is what you are saying, can you eleborate as to why I will have the same issues from dairy and bread consumption with my fruit and animal foods diet? I assume you don't think it is simply because my diet is raw.

The only thing I can think that is that you feel I am either ingesting bad things or missing vital things. My diet meets the required nutrients and I am not ingesting extra toxins.

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Old 04-23-2007, 02:54 PM   #32
John de la Garza
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Kemal,

you said:
"Are you trying to claim that plants are "designed" so that humans can't eat them? Most of those plants existed before humans existed. And if you think about it, the plants now exist in great abundance because humans do eat them. "

I am saying plants have evolved protections so no animal eats them. Many animals have evolved ways to deal with this. To say plants now exists because we eat them is true, but it is artificial not a natural occurance, they are farmed due to the demand for them. I think the link I provided shows that animals that are truely suited to eat plants have a very different digestive system than we do (multiple stomachs, differnt bacteria that break down fiber, etc).


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Old 04-23-2007, 08:00 PM   #33
David Wood
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Actually, I thought plants evolved the strategy of burying their seeds in a sweet fruit explicitly so that they *would* get eaten. Not by humans, but birds and other animals that eat the fruits then carry the seeds in their digestive tract, eventually passing them out in another location (possibly in the middle of a fairly rich nitrogenous pile of manure), ready for new growth.

In other words, fruit = survival strategy for some plants . . . not the individual plant, but the species.

I think Jibreel's observation wasn't that your way was wrong, but that there are populations of very healthy people who eat bread and cheese and meat, and still seem to live healthy lives well into their 80's. (Of course, they chase goats up and down mountains all day, so that may have something to do with it, too.)


What *is* it about diet that seems to require people to convince others that *their* way is the one true best way to eat?
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:59 AM   #34
Garrett Smith
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I'm personally working on maximizing my antinutrient content so that I don't get eaten...
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:09 AM   #35
Daniel Miller
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John,

The "equations" you provided are frankly inadequate to describe the reality of mammalian metabolism...or any metabolic process. I saw the link you copied these from, and it appears that there is some scientific understanding behind some of the reactions, but it is inaccurate to assume that placing ingredient X and ingredient Y into your stomach and assume product P is generated.

What catalyzes these reactions? What intermediate steps are involved? Are the following products stable in serum? Are they easily processed by the liver or kidney?

I would imagine that asking the preceding questions and some others would allow one to conclude that, there are indeed some dangers of toxins in our foods, but that the enzymology is such that humans have benefited more than been harmed from cooking foods due to enzymatic rates, bioavailability, and many other metabolic processes.

Assuming that cooking creates free-radicals, carcinogens, etc that can definitely and conclusively act as mutagens is silly and won't hold up among people who actually study biochemistry.
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