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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 01-17-2011, 04:53 AM   #11
Adam Carlson
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

Deadlift is my favorite, followed closely by the press
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:45 AM   #12
David Thornton
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

All, thanks so much for your feedback! In the end, what persuaded me most NOT to drop was Doug's comment about putting heavy things down in real life. It's true, my wife doesn't like it when I pick up a box of Christmas decorations then throw them down on the ground. What's her problem?
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:24 PM   #13
Doug Lantz
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

Mr. Simmons,

You make compelling points, I'd like to hear to your replies to my replies.

I think everyone involved in this discussion will benefit.

I may well be wrong about the injury potential of dropping a deadlift, I was thinking out loud there. However I don't agree that it's a "silly" thought.

I recall reading a competitors post that they injured themselves dropping a deadlift but can't recall details. For all I know they dropped it on their foot.

You are of course correct that few of us will ever "need" to pick up 500 pounds, squat 5 reps, etc but I believe the point of most training is just to increase GPP.

Rip points out in SSBBT "A 400 pound deadlift makes picking up an 85 pound box much more manageable"

You said in your post "We are working to develop peak athletic performance not to duplicate the things we do in everyday life.

Same as above, my understanding is that "training" should not "duplicate" the exact movements used in real life.

"Practice" is the place for duplication, there you apply the GPP acquired in your training correct ?

Lastly, I see in your signature that you deadlift 505.
I'm sure many people reading this deadlift far less, I'm about 200 pounds short of that myself.

Rip has stated that once a trainee can deadlift in the low to mid 400's it's time to train the top portion of the movement with rack pulls and the bottom with haltings because as you stated, the amount of stress is simply too great to recover from in any reasonable time frame.

Also as you stated, it's the eccentric portion of the lift that creates the most stress. So at your level of advancement, dropping the bar makes sense.

However I still think (and the OP agreed) that setting the bar down makes good sense for us lesser trainees because we are training for basic GPP rather than peak athletic performance.

Training and practicing setting down what we pick up is part of that.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:58 PM   #14
Geoff Archibald
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

I lower some and drop some.

For WODs I lower until I start to fatigue and then I'll start dropping them. Lowering is faster for touch and go lifts but once I stop the touch and go I start dropping them.

Warm up sets I always lower but for max efforts I usually drop the last rep. If someone can convince me to lower the last rep then I will but I think that the risk of injury is greater and not worth the risk. I could be wrong and if anyone has a plausible argument that the risk of injury is small and that the benefit is large then I am willing to change my ways.
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:47 PM   #15
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

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Originally Posted by Geoff Archibald View Post
Warm up sets I always lower but for max efforts I usually drop the last rep. If someone can convince me to lower the last rep then I will but I think that the risk of injury is greater and not worth the risk. I could be wrong and if anyone has a plausible argument that the risk of injury is small and that the benefit is large then I am willing to change my ways.
As noted above, dropped lifts get red lights in competition. Which means that technically you shouldn't actually count a max unless you lower the last rep.

But it's your back, so it's up to you to decide whether that benefit is worth the risk.

For training, as opposed to competition, one way to define a working max might be "heaviest weight I can lift *and* lower with good form." Depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Katherine
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:41 AM   #16
Geoff Archibald
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
As noted above, dropped lifts get red lights in competition. Which means that technically you shouldn't actually count a max unless you lower the last rep.

But it's your back, so it's up to you to decide whether that benefit is worth the risk.

For training, as opposed to competition, one way to define a working max might be "heaviest weight I can lift *and* lower with good form." Depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Katherine
I will never enter a power lifting comp so comp standards don't really matter to me. I know I *could* lower my max lifts, I'm just not sure it's worth it. I deadlift as a supplemental exercise, not to have a strong deadlift. Negatives are used in other lifts as a strength training tool so I could really be missing out. I may just be falling prey to the old deadlift back injury paranoia although quite a few people in my gym jacked their backs in a WOD with deadlifts.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #17
David Thornton
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

Exactly, Geoff, and that's why I started this thread. The handful of stories of deadlift injuries I've heard go like this:

"I lifted the weight with no problems, but on the way down, pop!"

Thus, I've got a real paranoia about this particular lift. I know that the best way to avoid back injury is to train my back, but I want to be as safe as possible.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:19 AM   #18
Joe Bernard
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

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Originally Posted by Geoff Archibald View Post
I will never enter a power lifting comp so comp standards don't really matter to me. I know I *could* lower my max lifts, I'm just not sure it's worth it. I deadlift as a supplemental exercise, not to have a strong deadlift. Negatives are used in other lifts as a strength training tool so I could really be missing out. I may just be falling prey to the old deadlift back injury paranoia although quite a few people in my gym jacked their backs in a WOD with deadlifts.
What type of work were they doing, strength or metcon? My lower back feels torched after doing a bunch of deadlifts in a metcon, much moreso than doing a max sep of five reps. A metcon is where form can go to crap in order to get a faster time, which has a higher chance of resulting in injury.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:51 AM   #19
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

Bouncing the bar in a DL in a metcon is a good way to make your lower back sore.

It's also stupid.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:57 AM   #20
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Deadlifts: drop or put down?

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Originally Posted by Joe Bernard View Post
What type of work were they doing, strength or metcon? My lower back feels torched after doing a bunch of deadlifts in a metcon, much moreso than doing a max sep of five reps. A metcon is where form can go to crap in order to get a faster time, which has a higher chance of resulting in injury.
And the much lighter weights in metcons don't enforce good form, either. It's easy to just sling the weight around, only to realize the next day how bad an idea that was.

Katherine
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