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Old 03-08-2006, 09:08 PM   #21
Robert Wolf
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Steve-

So I am to understand that because Loren Cordain is a distance runner and not a bodybuilder he lacks credibility? The fact Barry Sears is chubby and does not follow his own diet makes his technology suspect? This seems like some kind of Straw Man dismissal of the facts.

Regarding "experts" I'm not sure to what you are refering or what you are looking for. Questions are asked, then sometimes answered and biases are obvious (Hi, I'm the PaleoGuy). People arrive on the site and proclaim: "I eat brown rice! I kick ***!" To which people usually respond: There may be a better way but do what works for you".

You seem to have a problem with people having a fairly tight answer to some standard sets of questions. The floor is certainly open for input, particularly on this acne topic. You say its not diet. I think it is. I've made an attempt to both cite relavant literature and make a case for the disease in a theoretical framework. You have complained that we are zombies and not open to new ideas. That seems to be skirting the issue.

Attached is a photo of me "walking the Walk". Video link as well.

http://www.crossfitnorcal.com/galler...deo&videoID=65
http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/21216.jpg
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:32 PM   #22
Tony Ferous
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I think majority of us on this boeard like and enjoy to eating paleo, I sure do, however there must be more to acne than insulin-spiking.

I don't have a huge acne problem, but it does occur regularly at a low level.

Nothing I eat regularly is high GI/II,
no refined products, generally no whey, no high GI fruit, omega 6/3 is balanced, low sodium.
I'm familiar Cordains research, its very interesting, but frustrating when you should have glowing, radient health(though I'm never ill otherwise to be honest).

I don't think I'll ever take accutane, nor should I be zinc/vit A deficient(I've taken preformed A, I don't think beta-carotene conversion is efficient) - I've not had tests however.

Rob, can you knock up a diet, $100 sounds like a deal! As I've read all(I think) of Cordains stuff, I don't see how if could radically differ from my diet, but I'm very open to suggestions.

Garrett, whats the link to the allergy test? I agree that perhaps its GI tract/lymph disposal of waste issue.

Thanks all.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:33 PM   #23
Mark Gebhard
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"I'll desigen the diet, you have whomever you like actually follow it for a month and I'll bet you $100 they are acne free at the end of the month."

Cool, you'll design my diet for $100. How much detail does that include? :lol:
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:53 PM   #24
Sarah Sweeney
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okay, okay guys...I have been following this thread and now I would love some of your advice to problems I'm having. Think of me as your "ginnie-pig" of sorts, for your arguments.

I recently went to a natropathic doc for some problems that I'm having and my regular MD seems to think changing my bc and daily meds can help/fix. Needless to say they don't and I'm miserable. Unfortunatly, my insurance doesn't cover anything but the office visit and I can't afford all the tests the nat. doc wants to run.

So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I've been on meds since I was 14yro (I'm 25) for depression/anxiety, for the past 5-6 years my menstral cycle has not been normal, I've always suffered from acne, and I have such fatigue every single day I have to schedule any errands on my lunch hour around my daily nap!

I'm trying hard to stick to the zone (third attempt...), and train CF 4-5 days a week.

Any ideas?
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:29 PM   #25
Sarah Sweeney
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Forgot to mention the reasons that actually sent me to a Natropath doc. I have been suffering for months now from EXTREME night sweats. So extreme there have been many mornings I've woke up dehydrated and sick. Along with the sweats, I've also had a lot of digestion problems. (which have gotten a little better since trying the zone)

Ok, now...
...Any ideas?
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Old 03-09-2006, 01:30 AM   #26
Lynne Pitts
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Sarah,
You should probably start a new thread; while this one has wandered from the topic a bit, your question really is completely different.
Thanks,
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:06 AM   #27
Bryan McWilliams
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I really enjoy thoughtful discussion by people with passion! This has ben a great thread.

Whil I think Steve went overboard with the zombie analogy, everyone undrstood that he was beng facetious, and not attacking anyone personally.

Diet is absolutly critical and should be the starting treatment point for any pathology. That being said, it is specious and unkind to accuse those taht don't hew to a strict diet of being lazy.

In the 70's when I had acne, they had pretty well thrown out any dietary cause. There was no one saying that diet would help. What was I to do? Here's what I did do:

- mega doses of tera cycline
- sulphur capsules, caused devastating farts
- UV light
- lancing and draining of bad cycts (quite painful)
- steroids

NONE OF THIS HELPED.

Again, realize that this was pre-zone, and nutrtion had been dismissed, because the previous nutrional acne paradigm had been de-bunked.

Given this story, accutane would have been a god-send for me.

My wife is on anti-depressants, and has been for decades. SHe has tried to go off them, her diet is sound, and she is active. When she does not take the meds, she is in terrible shape. These meds make her life (and mine) beraable.

All I am trying ti illustrtae here i that medical knowledge and treatment is a moving target. As a patient, you must be informed, take responsibility, and be willing to change courses.

And I do agree..if you have acne, step 1 is clean up your diet.

If you have severe, disfiguring acne, you can save yourself s lot of agony by using the modern pharmaopaei



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Old 03-09-2006, 06:23 AM   #28
Steve Liberati
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No doubt we are getting off-track. Let's try to bring it back...

My intentions were not to stick up for T-Nation and bodybuilding nutrition. The point I was trying to make [by comparing pics] was that its healthy and within our benefit to accept more than one stance on the subject.

As a fitness community, I think we could further benefit from the advice of other experts in the field and the merits and experiences each one can bring.

As Dr.G so gratefully put it, "we can all benefit from a slight bit of individualization in our dietary choices."

Getting back to the original topic...

If diet alone can solve an acne problem, I think you'd be foolish not to go this route. If true, this will change the lives of many many people for the better.

I'm just having a hard time believing this to be true. Although diet is certainly a contributing factor...the real problem is more than skin deep and out of most people's control.




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Old 03-09-2006, 06:54 AM   #29
William Hunter
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First off, great discussion. I like the maturity of this debate (too many disintegrating threads recently IMO).

Having been to Chiro school, I'm certainly in the "All-natural, all the time" crew. In fact, Dr. G sounds exactly like my Chiro Nutrition Professor, who I have great respect for.

I believe firmly that if you start treating your body correctly, ie, correct diet, exercise, sleep etc. that your body can go through a miraculous healing process w/o the need of pharmaceutical intervention.

HOWEVER, and my question is this: If we (unwittingly) abuse our GI tract, often for decades, and end up with problems such as acne, is it possible that no matter how pure we make our diet we have caused too much damage that pharma-intervention becomes necessary?

If anyone would care to comment on this I'd love to hear it.
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:38 AM   #30
Garrett Smith
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William,
Therapeutic measures may need to be undertaken for the GI tract after what may be any period of abuse.

This can include killing gut fungus and parasites that have set up in the weakened gut (I might go pharmaceutical here, if there's one thing I find pharmaceuticals to be good at, it's killing things :happy:), to performing one or more cleanses to get rid of various toxins that have accumulated and are not gotten rid of on a normal eating pattern, restoring the proper bacterial environment of the gut, repairing the gut wall from the damage inflicted upon it, and likely strict dietary changes for the rest of their life. Until all of these had been addressed, I would not prescribe--unless I had a stubborn patient who would admit to my questioning that they lacked the drive and self-discipline to attempt this naturally first.

If I did eventually choose to prescribe, I might send them to be under the care of a dermatologist until they notice that their health is declining further and they're sick of the side effects. If and when the patient did return, I'd then have a newly motivated patient who was more interested in pursuing what I had to offer.

The ability we have nowadays to abuse our digestion with things we call "food" is unbelievable.

Tony, the link to the allergy testing company I use currently is www.immunolabs.com (for physicians) and www.betterhealthusa.com (for laypeople). Email me if you desire assistance in this process. Typically we see some *big* food reactions in people with skin issues (ie. my mother's psoriasis and eggs).
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