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Old 09-29-2008, 12:14 PM   #1
Ryan Lynch
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Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

So I know there are plenty of military/police types on here and I hope this is an acceptable place for this (there is a Crossfit question in here)...

I've recently taken up shooting (both handgun and rifle) as both a hobby and for the possible Zombie Apocalypse.

So the essential question is how to improve ones shooting skill, but I need to elaborate first. My issue appears to be with upper body strength and not marksmanship. My marksmanship is fine when in a fixed or braced position. However standing and having to hold the weapon out I get wobbly pretty quickly. I can hold for a few good shots but then need to take a break for the arms to recover.

Holding a 6lb rifle or lighter handgun out for more than a dozen seconds really starts to tax the muscles and the motors skills used for fine control. Obviously more practice and I will eventually improve, or through the use of specialized training I would improve. But this doesn't seem to fit the Crossfit model.

So my question is how can I improve muscle endurance and fine motor skill through Crossfit to improve my ability to hold a weapon on target for an improved length of time while maintaining fine motor control over the weapon (keeping it on target with minimal wobble).

...or am I going about this wrong way?


-Ryan
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:14 PM   #2
David Sharp
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

How does practicing it specifically not fit the crossfit model? Constantly learn and play new sports. Your learning to shoot. Practice it. Also, don't forget your shotgun work. Essential anti zombie weapon.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:25 PM   #3
Ryan Lynch
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

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Originally Posted by David Sharp View Post
How does practicing it specifically not fit the crossfit model? Constantly learn and play new sports. Your learning to shoot. Practice it. Also, don't forget your shotgun work. Essential anti zombie weapon.

I think I see your point...Thanks.


-Ryan

Oh, and thanks for the tip on the shotgun.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:32 PM   #4
Mike Prevost
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Lynch View Post
So I know there are plenty of military/police types on here and I hope this is an acceptable place for this (there is a Crossfit question in here)...

I've recently taken up shooting (both handgun and rifle) as both a hobby and for the possible Zombie Apocalypse.

So the essential question is how to improve ones shooting skill, but I need to elaborate first. My issue appears to be with upper body strength and not marksmanship. My marksmanship is fine when in a fixed or braced position. However standing and having to hold the weapon out I get wobbly pretty quickly. I can hold for a few good shots but then need to take a break for the arms to recover.

Holding a 6lb rifle or lighter handgun out for more than a dozen seconds really starts to tax the muscles and the motors skills used for fine control. Obviously more practice and I will eventually improve, or through the use of specialized training I would improve. But this doesn't seem to fit the Crossfit model.

So my question is how can I improve muscle endurance and fine motor skill through Crossfit to improve my ability to hold a weapon on target for an improved length of time while maintaining fine motor control over the weapon (keeping it on target with minimal wobble).

...or am I going about this wrong way?


-Ryan

Ryan

I improved a ton over a 1 day shooting course with the Marine Corps. I did not realize that there was so much technique to it (how you hold the pistol, how you squeeze the trigger etc...). It might be worth it to get some coaching. In my case, a little coaching went a long way. I improved more in one day than I would have in weeks on my own. A few simple tips can go a long way.

Mike
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:41 PM   #5
Ryan Lynch
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

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Originally Posted by Mike Prevost View Post
Ryan

I improved a ton over a 1 day shooting course with the Marine Corps. I did not realize that there was so much technique to it (how you hold the pistol, how you squeeze the trigger etc...). It might be worth it to get some coaching. In my case, a little coaching went a long way. I improved more in one day than I would have in weeks on my own. A few simple tips can go a long way.

Mike
Thanks Mike,

That's pretty much what I have done. I've been taking class's on both and have learned immensely. Discovered that I was left eye dominate, and needed a more isosceles stance for the pistol. Suddenly I can hit the target AND shoot groups. So your right, amazing what some simple instruction can do.

I'm just frustrated that the ole arms tire so quickly over such little weight. In the last class, it was suggested that 5-10min a day get spent on dry fire drills and this would eventually strengthen the arms and solve itself.

To actually think I should have to practice something to get better at it?!?! Heresy!

-Ryan
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:49 PM   #6
Mike Prevost
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

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Originally Posted by Ryan Lynch View Post
Thanks Mike,

That's pretty much what I have done. I've been taking class's on both and have learned immensely. Discovered that I was left eye dominate, and needed a more isosceles stance for the pistol. Suddenly I can hit the target AND shoot groups. So your right, amazing what some simple instruction can do.

I'm just frustrated that the ole arms tire so quickly over such little weight. In the last class, it was suggested that 5-10min a day get spent on dry fire drills and this would eventually strengthen the arms and solve itself.

To actually think I should have to practice something to get better at it?!?! Heresy!

-Ryan
Ryan

Ahhh...I see. Yes, it seems that some conditioning would be in order. It is not so much that you are weak, but that fatigue really impairs fine motor control. I think what you are experiencing is pretty normal.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:55 PM   #7
Anthony DiSarro
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

in terms of shooting for sport is there really a reason that you would need to stay on a target for an extended period of time? In combat shooting, after a shooting drill you'll find most law enforcement officers move to a low ready position. This allows you to move tactically and safely while you scan the area for other potential threats and to locate avenues of escape. This position gives those smaller muscles a rest and more closely resembles an actual gun battle with Zombies or whatever. Your stance no doubt at first was a Weaver Stance, with one foot back and body bladed. An isosceles, squared up, stance is more comfortable for most and for cops squares their body to the threat, putting body armor front and center where it works best.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:55 PM   #8
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

On rifles I know you have to breathe right, etc. My Dad taught me how to shoot when I was little so I just do it.

This might help
wfs depending on your view on rifles:

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....-shooting.html

I know nothing about pistols.

Last edited by Jason Lopez-Ota; 09-29-2008 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:50 AM   #9
Christopher Peiffer
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

i really think that shooters preference, as far as techniques go, is more important than going to classes and learning what works for other people. the best way to dial it in is to find out what is most comfortable and effective for you, and to put alot of rounds downrange. dry fires are very effective too.
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:09 AM   #10
Bryan Back
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Re: Shooting Skill (firearms that is) Improvement

Ryan,

1. Shoot more. The more you shoot the stronger you get.

2. As for long guns. Rifle or Shotgun, do not underestimate grip strength as being a possible bigger problem than your overall strength problem. I have seen very muscular officers have problems with holding the weapon. It is clearly not a lack of muscles but a lack of grip strength. Do CF for its rope climbs, pull ups, DL etc.

3. I subscribe to the practice of marksmanship and shooting in competitions. A balance of both will get you ready for the zombie revolution and is a heck of a lot of fun. Although with a war on those darn bullets are getting expensive. IDPA, IPSC or THREEGUN competitions are lots of fun. Watch what the winners do and ask questions. Yeah, they are all experts at the range but take advise from those who score high, use commonsense and most of all have good safe fun.

By the way, a person I work with defines EXPERT as: EX=a has been and a SPURT=drip under pressure. When you look at it that way I like to say I am constantly learning and am not yet an expert

4. Don't stick the pistol out so far. I know Don't get the weaver people all in a tizzy. Bend the elbows in a bit (not so much to hit yourself in the face with the pistol slide) which will bring the weight closer to the body and better utilize your muscles.
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