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Old 08-26-2011, 09:31 AM   #81
Michael R. Miller
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

You guys are all up on Chris' deal when he is answering waaaayyyy more questions than I would, but you embrace CrossFit which is mostly based on empirical evidence. I dont need to see a double blind control hypothesized pythagoras experiment to see that it will benefit me.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:48 AM   #82
Paulo Santos
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

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Originally Posted by Michael R. Miller View Post
You guys are all up on Chris' deal when he is answering waaaayyyy more questions than I would, but you embrace CrossFit which is mostly based on empirical evidence. I dont need to see a double blind control hypothesized pythagoras experiment to see that it will benefit me.
No ****. Lets drive away another helpful resource from this forum and CrossFit. I don't understand how in one post, guys are accusing Chris Mason of "Pimping" Westside, and other posts guys are asking for scientific evidence. Obviously what the guys at Westside are doing is working.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:53 AM   #83
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

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Originally Posted by Paulo Santos View Post
No ****. Lets drive away another helpful resource from this forum and CrossFit. I don't understand how in one post, guys are accusing Chris Mason of "Pimping" Westside, and other posts guys are asking for scientific evidence. Obviously what the guys at Westside are doing is working.
No one denies that it works. The claims being questioned are that Westside is the best program for anyone, from novice to world-class, and that all other programs are, in Chris's words, "cr*p."

Personally, my response is along the lines of:
Meh. Let's see how much he can snatch.
But that tends to spiral down the rabbit hole of arguments about the state of US weightlifting.

Katherine
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:01 AM   #84
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Seems to me Chris (though I can't speak for him) is sugguesting if you want to be efficient with your time spent doing the big three lifts, you will see continuing gains that aren't likely to stagnate in the manner LP may be prone to. I never took what he said as Westside being a replacement for different areas of training i.e. Olylifting, gymnastics etc.
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:27 AM   #85
Michael R. Miller
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

I dont know I just think that sometimes people in the CrossFit community have this jerk mentality for some reason, its not something I am a big fan of and a lot of the comments seemed more like barbs then actual questions. Maybe that is just how they talk who knows to each his own look forward to the day I need some westside help I know who I am going too on the board.
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:38 AM   #86
Robert Fabsik
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

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Originally Posted by Alan Siebuhr View Post
Is it normal for a powerlifter to have their legs THAT wide...?

Either way, from what I can tell, they're super strong... But (and I'm not an expert on this matter, there's no view from the side) it doesn't seem like they're going parallel.

Also, pimping Westside doesn't do you much good. There are other excellent strength programs that people have found success with (and not everyone likes to powerlift primarily).
A lot of powerlifters squat wide to help recruit the posterior chain. I think this stance also can benefit more from supportive gear. Westsiders take it wider than most powerlifters.

Chris is cleary strong on his opinion about Westside and it originated from Louie Simmons for powerlifting, but it clearly is not a program just for powerlifting--and Louie clearly states that a lot of his ideas came from Russian and Bulgarian weightlifting. You can make some exercise changes as needed and adjust it to work for many other sports especially those that need power and strength. The more coaches/sites I read, the more you can see something that Westside promoted.
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:02 PM   #87
Eric A. Brown
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Ok, watch Dave Hoff's 945 lbs bench press in the 275 lbs class in a FULL MEET. That would pass in any federation and without Donnie hitting his 950 lbs in the same meet would have beaten the old record, regardless of class, by 40 lbs!

How about Laura Phelps' deadlift or bench presses?

You think all of the squats are high, so I should skip them, but your logic is a bit flawed with that one because you are dead wrong in what would or would not have passed in the other feds. In fact, the first 1,200 lbs squat which was passed in a fed other than the SPF was WAYYYYY higher than any of the squats at the Pro-Am.

Another thing about the whole depth argument that gets lost on the ignorant masses is that people who "bury" their squats like O-lifters and the Chad guy getting referenced here are using the stretch reflex like a mother****er to literally BOUNCE out of the hole and thrust themselves into a partial squat position where they can muscle out the lift. If they actually paused in their "deep" position they would get buried in the hole. So, which lift is easier, the paused, or nearly paused squat to parallel or just above or the "buried" bounce out of the hole?

Whether a meet is raw or equipped there are always lifts that get passed that some people question. That's the sport. That has nothing to do with training methods.

Louie's methods have produced all-time record after all-time record from when there was NO gear all the way through the progression.

If Louie's methods aren't the best how does a 10 or so man crew consistently out-lift pretty much every other athlete in the world?

Why isn't the US O-lifting as dominant? I know, training has nothing to do with it...

To question the group-think about anything is always difficult because people like to think they know best, but in the end, the proof is in the pudding and Louie's pudding always proves out regardless of federation or gear.

If you are going to reply to my posts, at least do me the courtesy of not making straw man arguments out of them. I write fairly clearly.


If you actually want to reply to my post, given the above stipulation, go right ahead. I have no problem saying Mike's 1200lbs. squat was a joke as far as depth goes. No, I have never had over 75% of that on my back, but I still know where parallel is.

Now, back to the original point: How does passing a **** lift like Thompson's squat prove the superiority of Westside? Again, I ask you this as someone who has trained this way for a very long time.

I have never said there was no individual variety within Westside. I have never said it did not work. I also have no problem saying when a lift that would have gotten laughed out of a meet 20 or 25 years ago gets passed now that it disgraces our sport.
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:47 PM   #88
Jordan K Smith
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

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Originally Posted by Eric A. Brown View Post
How does passing a **** lift like Thompson's squat prove the superiority of Westside?
How can you say that at that camera angle? Also, the man put 1265 pounds on his back and got at least to parallel and stood up with it, and it's a **** lift? Wow.
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:17 PM   #89
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Another thing about the whole depth argument that gets lost on the ignorant masses is that people who "bury" their squats like O-lifters and the Chad guy getting referenced here are using the stretch reflex like a mother****er to literally BOUNCE out of the hole and thrust themselves into a partial squat position where they can muscle out the lift. If they actually paused in their "deep" position they would get buried in the hole. So, which lift is easier, the paused, or nearly paused squat to parallel or just above or the "buried" bounce out of the hole?
Try both and see...

The fact that people are able to lift more weight powerlifter-style suggests that the powerlifter-style squat is easier.

OTOH, O-lifters don't actually care how much they can squat, except as it relates to the clean. I'd expect that someone for whom the squat is a competition lift would be able to squat more than someone for whom it's an assistance lift.

Katherine
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:08 AM   #90
Terry Gibbs
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Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:

Chris is cleary strong on his opinion about Westside and it originated from Louie Simmons for powerlifting, but it clearly is not a program just for powerlifting--and Louie clearly states that a lot of his ideas came from Russian and Bulgarian weightlifting. You can make some exercise changes as needed and adjust it to work for many other sports especially those that need power and strength. The more coaches/sites I read, the more you can see something that Westside promoted.
and he also is still carrying on with some of the orginal Westside Culver City,
(1960s to early 1970s) ideas with the Box Squats, Belly benching and some of their congruate principles - Louie in the current PLUSA mentioned an article George Frenn wrote back in 1969 that inspired him back then ..great article still holds true today, 30 years ahead of its time ....

Also Louie has been very sucessful using some of his techniques to coach other sports. He was working with Butch Reynolds before he broke the world record in the 400m ..

big issue issue I see here, is that some people may be making comments without really having spent too much time getting into the full meaning of a Westside template ..

kind of like when people come on here with ideas of the negative side of Crossfit without actually trying it
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