CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-24-2011, 08:30 PM   #51
Robert Fabsik
Member Robert Fabsik is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kildeer  IL
Posts: 2,233
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Who's the strongest?

The guy who can raw squat 800, but in a suit squat 900

Or the guy who can raw squat 700 but in the same suit as the first, squat 1,000?

If I'm understanding Chris, since I have no experience with gear, adding shirts, suits, wraps adds another technical level to the game.

In any sport, the more elite the athelete, the more performance one can get out of equipment.

Federer's heavy racquet allows him to hit with astonishing power, but most club players can't swing it right. Would Federer be a world champion if he had to play with a wood racquet of an older era?

I'm sure if I got one of those fancy swim suits, I could swim maybe a little faster, but I imagine the olympic swimmers get much more out of it.

So in fairness to those who choose to lift in gear, if you want to compare them to a raw lifter, it seems like you'd have to compare them on both fields of battle. Make the raw guys put on a suits and have the gearheads go raw.

My mindset/preference is for raw lifting. But does gear help promote the sport in that there is a product to sell and it helps set new records which generates more interest in powerlifting? Since powerlifting isn't a contact/direct competition sport like tennis, basketball etc., I think the numbers become very important.

How much has the raw squat gone up in the past 10 years vs. geared squat?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 09:04 PM   #52
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Yudman View Post
Although I like westside, I dont know how you could say the best of the best train that way...how would we know if the great multiply lifters don't do a raw meet?
How about Stan Efferding? He trains with Mark Bell (at least part of the time) when prepping for powerlifting and Mark is a strong Westside proponent - in fact he is running Westside certs. Stan has one of the highest raw totals of all time.

Does he qualify?

How about Konstantin Konstantinov with his 939 lbs raw deadlift. He certainly uses many Westside techniques as I have seen videos of him pulling against bands etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 09:06 PM   #53
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
Who's the strongest?

The guy who can raw squat 800, but in a suit squat 900

Or the guy who can raw squat 700 but in the same suit as the first, squat 1,000?

If I'm understanding Chris, since I have no experience with gear, adding shirts, suits, wraps adds another technical level to the game.

In any sport, the more elite the athelete, the more performance one can get out of equipment.

Federer's heavy racquet allows him to hit with astonishing power, but most club players can't swing it right. Would Federer be a world champion if he had to play with a wood racquet of an older era?

I'm sure if I got one of those fancy swim suits, I could swim maybe a little faster, but I imagine the olympic swimmers get much more out of it.

So in fairness to those who choose to lift in gear, if you want to compare them to a raw lifter, it seems like you'd have to compare them on both fields of battle. Make the raw guys put on a suits and have the gearheads go raw.

My mindset/preference is for raw lifting. But does gear help promote the sport in that there is a product to sell and it helps set new records which generates more interest in powerlifting? Since powerlifting isn't a contact/direct competition sport like tennis, basketball etc., I think the numbers become very important.

How much has the raw squat gone up in the past 10 years vs. geared squat?
The raw record is 1,000 lbs and the equipped 1,265 lbs both by roughly 400 lbs men. I know for a fact Don Reinhoudt squatted over 900 lbs with and without knee wraps in the 70s.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 09:48 PM   #54
Andrew Bell
Member Andrew Bell is offline
 
Andrew Bell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 4,021
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Chris,
You are NEVER going to be able to convience every one here that wants to get stronger to do Westide. Different strokes for different folks partner.
__________________
| Log (wfs) |
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 11:20 PM   #55
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Bell View Post
Chris,
You are NEVER going to be able to convience every one here that wants to get stronger to do Westide. Different strokes for different folks partner.
Perhaps, but the unfortunate truth is that the majority seem convinced crap like SS is the way. My goal is to make it the other way around. Look, I toiled with training incorrectly for years and years. I learned the proper way 3-4 years ago and now feel that I can help others save a lot of time and frustration. That's my goal.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 11:37 PM   #56
Ian Girvan
Member Ian Girvan is offline
 
Ian Girvan's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sydney  NSW Australia
Posts: 38
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Perhaps, but the unfortunate truth is that the majority seem convinced crap like SS is the way. My goal is to make it the other way around. Look, I toiled with training incorrectly for years and years. I learned the proper way 3-4 years ago and now feel that I can help others save a lot of time and frustration. That's my goal.
And you are most definitely going about it the wrong way.
__________________
Sausages :D
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 11:59 PM   #57
Andrew Bell
Member Andrew Bell is offline
 
Andrew Bell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 4,021
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Perhaps, but the unfortunate truth is that the majority seem convinced crap like SS is the way. My goal is to make it the other way around. Look, I toiled with training incorrectly for years and years. I learned the proper way 3-4 years ago and now feel that I can help others save a lot of time and frustration. That's my goal.
There's NO doubt Westside works, but do you think for a complete noob who has never touched a weight before that it's better than SS/LP?

Not knocking, serious question.
__________________
| Log (wfs) |
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 12:03 AM   #58
Ben Norris
Member Ben Norris is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunshine Coast  QLD Australia
Posts: 727
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Perhaps, but the unfortunate truth is that the majority seem convinced crap like SS is the way. My goal is to make it the other way around. Look, I toiled with training incorrectly for years and years. I learned the proper way 3-4 years ago and now feel that I can help others save a lot of time and frustration. That's my goal.
Chris I have no doubt that Westside will get you strong. I know for a fact that you have many success stories both within the Crossfit community and outside, however coming here and bashing what is a very good program for beginner lifters is not going to do you any good whatsoever.

If you are going to make such claims that SS is crap and Westside is awesome then perhaps you should offer evidence that this is the case?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 12:53 AM   #59
Adam Yudman
Member Adam Yudman is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 26
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
How about Stan Efferding? He trains with Mark Bell (at least part of the time) when prepping for powerlifting and Mark is a strong Westside proponent - in fact he is running Westside certs. Stan has one of the highest raw totals of all time.

Does he qualify?

How about Konstantin Konstantinov with his 939 lbs raw deadlift. He certainly uses many Westside techniques as I have seen videos of him pulling against bands etc.
true...but what about guys like chad smith, who endorses block periodization...guys like andrey malanichev, mike tuscherer? I guess for me watching a guy total 2000 raw is way more impressive than 2800 geard...when it takes a lifter 3 helpers and 15 minutes to get him into his gear, and then use a monolift, eh its kinda boring to me
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 05:37 AM   #60
Eric A. Brown
Member Eric A. Brown is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York  NY
Posts: 226
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Bell View Post
Chris,
You are NEVER going to be able to convience every one here that wants to get stronger to do Westide. Different strokes for different folks partner.
This.

I train Westside, for the record, and have since I started reading Louie's stuff in PLUSA after converting from OL'ing in, I think, the late 80's? Maybe very early in the 90's. But that still does not mean it is going to automatically work best for everyone.

Many people do just fine without rotating anything. Ric Gaugler did the same program for over a decade, and he was IPF world champ. Many people have dominated at the world level without using Westside (Coan, Gant - my personal favorite), etc.

There are many methods to get strong, and obviously I prefer Westside, or I would not have trained that way before there were ever any chains and bands, and back when regular DE percentages routinely exceeded 70%. But because someone does well with the system does not make it superior to every other system.

Oh, and Thompsons squat was a joke, it was that high. If I can practically drive a half-track under somebody's *** in the bottom of their squat, the guy squatting better be the Jolly Green Giant. And yeah, I have done my share of judging. One of the reasons why I will never, ever lift in an SPF meet.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Westside of Olympia, WA Craig Sheley In Search of CrossFitters 0 01-15-2011 06:06 PM
Westside For Grapplers Troy Becker Fitness 13 12-25-2010 07:50 PM
Westside Barbell Program Jason Beck Fitness 8 02-18-2009 03:46 PM
Crossfit + Westside Joseph Cormier Fitness 12 08-20-2008 06:10 AM
Westside? Kevin Roddy Fitness 17 05-19-2004 04:54 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:40 PM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.