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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-10-2011, 09:45 AM   #71
Alex Europa
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

This...

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Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
Uh, there are better ways to improve strength and speed than crossfit. Like say a program that focuses on strength and speed. This goes back to Joe's comments in the link at the start of this thread. Make the "main course" speed training or strength training rather than try to make the "main course" everything.
Plus this...

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Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
Other than being a regular reader of this site and messing around with a couple of the workouts none (which I'd bet is as much or more than Defranco himself).
Tells me that you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to what CrossFit can and cannot do, or it's transference to other sports... You are more than welcome to your opinion, but I won't be discussing topics like this in the future with you because it's like discussing the moon landing with someone who doesn't believe that it ever happened.

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P.S. thousands maybe millions of people around the world run marathons. Thousands of people weightlift. These aren't exactly fringe sports.
Fringe in the sense of demands, not popularity...why would I discuss popularity at all in this thread?

- Alex
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:45 AM   #72
Mark Boyle
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Now looking at the sport, developing the skill set in basketball has different requirements than football. Basketball is a sport you practice and football - particularly at lewis' postion - is a sport you prepare for. Therefore, howard's body is under a state of constant stress and thereby limits what he can do in the weightroom. Lewis on the other hand can place greater stress on his body in the weightroom in the offseason because it is his only source of stress.

The added stress on the body limits howard's ability to move and/or recover from maximal efforts in the gym,
So by this logic, if Lewis were to play basketball, and have is body be "under a state of constant stress" would be still be able to do same routine in the weight room or would he have to lift like Howard?
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:54 AM   #73
Chris Walls
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

Alex, at what point is it no longer CrossFit tho? If you start to program with a plan in mind, periodizing it, shifting the focus to speed and power... sounds like a regular GPP/S&C program.

You can't say everything is CF just because it uses similar movements and high perceived intensity/hard work...

For the sake of debate, CF has to remain the constantly varied, functional movements, high intensity type CF, which is what most are saying would not be as beneficial to upper echelon athletes as the former.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:59 AM   #74
Mark Boyle
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
This...



Plus this...



Tells me that you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to what CrossFit can and cannot do, or it's transference to other sports... You are more than welcome to your opinion, but I won't be discussing topics like this in the future with you because it's like discussing the moon landing with someone who doesn't believe that it ever happened.
Fortunately, my opinion is one that is shared by the majority of posters on this thread it would seem. A thread on crossfit.com no less.

Quote:
Fringe in the sense of demands, not popularity...why would I discuss popularity at all in this thread?

- Alex
I see, we should limit our discussion to sports where crossfit just happens to fit reasonably well as GPP?

Gotcha.

There are many sports where crossfit can be a good choice as a training plan. But, but its very nature of being non-specialized means it will NEVER be the ideal choice.

IMO the idea of crossfit is very good and a lot of people currently benefit from it. But, lets not pretend its something its not. That is simply dishonest.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:07 AM   #75
adam adkins
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post

Now looking at the sport, developing the skill set in basketball has different requirements than football. Basketball is a sport you practice and football - particularly at lewis' postion - is a sport you prepare for. Therefore, howard's body is under a state of constant stress and thereby limits what he can do in the weightroom. Lewis on the other hand can place greater stress on his body in the weightroom in the offseason because it is his only source of stress.

The added stress on the body limits howard's ability to move and/or recover from maximal efforts in the gym, basketball has a natural selection of longer athletes which limits the ability to move and/or recover maximal efforts, and basketball has a lower point of diminishing returns. Obviously the programs are different.

But as you remove these individual differences and make the athletes more similar and make the exposure to the sport more similar the program becomes virtually identical. Take a 6' high school kid. His programming - whether it be for shortstop, running back, or 2 guard - is and should be the same for virtually every sport.
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So by this logic, if Lewis were to play basketball, and have is body be "under a state of constant stress" would be still be able to do same routine in the weight room or would he have to lift like Howard?
As you can see, I've already answered that. The biggest driver of the difference is the individual's difference not the sport selection.

As I have already stated, if lewis switched to bball his skill requirements would change. The act of practicing these new skills (not to mention running up and down the court) would cause a drastic reduction in lewis' body weight. Now add in the total time lewis would have to spend honing these new skills and it would further limit the time and intensity he could spend in the weightroom and it further changes his program.

But the point is, howard doesn't represent the way bball players SHOULD train (back to the theory vs practice). Instead, it represents the way individuals already under high physical stress with wingspans well over 7' and femurs the size of a small child should train.

The way lewis trains is representative of how all athletes* should train. The deviation comes from skill requirement, physical stress required by the sport, individual body, and individual weakness.


* footnote for the other poster - that is all athletes who participate in relevant sports, not necessarily "all athletes."
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:10 AM   #76
adam adkins
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post

For the sake of debate, CF has to remain the constantly varied.
Constantly varied does not mean random. It can be "constantly vaired" with a purpose. I am not saying mainsite it constantly varied with a purpose, I am saying constantly varied can still be the methodology to a specific goal.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:13 AM   #77
Mauricio Leal
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Fortunately, my opinion is one that is shared by the majority of posters on this thread it would seem. A thread on crossfit.com no less.
This made my day.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:17 AM   #78
Mark Boyle
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post
As you can see, I've already answered that. The biggest driver of the difference is the individual's difference not the sport selection.

As I have already stated, if lewis switched to bball his skill requirements would change. The act of practicing these new skills (not to mention running up and down the court) would cause a drastic reduction in lewis' body weight. Now add in the total time lewis would have to spend honing these new skills and it would further limit the time and intensity he could spend in the weightroom and it further changes his program.

But the point is, howard doesn't represent the way bball players SHOULD train (back to the theory vs practice). Instead, it represents the way individuals already under high physical stress with wingspans well over 7' and femurs the size of a small child should train.

The way lewis trains is representative of how all athletes* should train. The deviation comes from skill requirement, physical stress required by the sport, individual body, and individual weakness.


* footnote for the other poster - that is all athletes who participate in relevant sports, not necessarily "all athletes."
Funny, I don't recall Julius Peppers dropping a lot of bodyweight when he played basketball.

Give it up already. Different sports require different training focuses.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:18 AM   #79
Mark Boyle
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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That is a bit of a ridiculous comparison. Powerlifting is an extremely specific sport. Most sporting activities involve more than one type of physical expression.
Few, if any sports require ALL types of physical expression.

The difference is merely a matter of degree, not principal.

P.S. I take your response to imply that you don't in fact do crossfit?

Last edited by Mark Boyle; 08-10-2011 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:29 AM   #80
Eric A. Brown
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post
As you can see, I've already answered that. The biggest driver of the difference is the individual's difference not the sport selection.
While I suppose that an unsupported assertion is technically an answer, that does not make it correct.

Please support your statements with something vaguely resembling empirical evidence.
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