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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-09-2011, 11:19 PM   #41
Alex Europa
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

True. However, I believe that we're looking at a difference in definitions. In Supertraining, intensity is considered a mixture of volume and percentage of 1RM. The examples that they provide in the book don't really correlate well to CrossFit WODs. I would assume however, that Verkhoshansky would probably say that CrossFit is "intense" using virtually any definition. So I neither agree nor disagree with you.

It is well-known that GPP typically utilized circuit training which often included the use of weights, so I personally didn't get too wrapped around that one portion of the definition. Let's not lose the forest for the trees though. I just wanted to discuss the point that GPP and SPP are wholly separate as GPP provides an athlete with the fitness to benefit from SPP. Whether or not CrossFit meets this particular definition of GPP is another discussion altogether...nearly all non-CrossFitters don't believe that it is a good choice, while CrossFitters typically do. To the best of my knowledge, neither side really has any data to support their position, so it's just an exercise in debate...but a fun debate none the less.

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Old 08-10-2011, 12:44 AM   #42
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

It seems to me that intensity is one of the guiding principles of Crossfit, and one of the things that differentiates it from other programs using the same movements.

Which is precisely why it may not be a good choice for GPP for athletes, who by definition need to be spending most of their energy training for their sport.

Katherine
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:34 AM   #43
Ewen Roth
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

For those of you that are saying, if I understand correctly, that GPP is or should be an ultra-basic, completely non-specific, jack-of-all-trades cycle of training (where a linebacker and a triathlete would be doing the exact same program, excluding work on individual weaknesses), how much time would you say a competitive athlete should spend on GPP before starting to address the actual needs of their sport, including their individual weaknesses as they relate to their sport (as opposed to building up your HSPU's just because)?

If GPP is just d!cking around for a few weeks at the beginning of the off-season, you don't even need a good program.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:55 AM   #44
Eric A. Brown
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
It seems to me that intensity is one of the guiding principles of Crossfit, and one of the things that differentiates it from other programs using the same movements.

Which is precisely why it may not be a good choice for GPP for athletes, who by definition need to be spending most of their energy training for their sport.

Katherine
Intensity is traditionally defined as "percentage of 1rm."

By that definition, many Crossfit workouts, although difficult, rate low on the relative intensity scale. Perceived intensity is a vastly different animal.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:03 AM   #45
Boris Bachmann
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by Ewen Roth View Post
For those of you that are saying, if I understand correctly, that GPP is or should be an ultra-basic, completely non-specific, jack-of-all-trades cycle of training (where a linebacker and a triathlete would be doing the exact same program, excluding work on individual weaknesses), how much time would you say a competitive athlete should spend on GPP before starting to address the actual needs of their sport, including their individual weaknesses as they relate to their sport (as opposed to building up your HSPU's just because)?

If GPP is just d!cking around for a few weeks at the beginning of the off-season, you don't even need a good program.
Well said.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:23 AM   #46
adam adkins
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by Eric A. Brown View Post
What exactly do you base this on?

Take several athletes:

1. Volleyball player.
2. Offensive lineman.
10. Hockey player.
Baseball
Lax
soccer
basketball

Are you seriously telling me you can train them using a general program?
Yes. Again, the differentiation comes from the individual not the sport.

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I'm reminded of the incident a few years ago where the New York Yankees hired a new S&C coach with no baseball experience ... and spent the first half of the season struggling through all kinds of injuries.

It's a safe bet that his credentials looked great on paper, but clearly a bit more specialization was needed.

The more specialized your goals, the more specialized your training needs to be. It's not even clear that Crossfit is the best way to develop elite *Crossfitters*; the suggestion that a generalized program aimed at the general population is the best way to develop elite athletes in other sports is ludicrous.

Katherine
Yeah it is a safe bet that Marty Miller's credentials were stellar in producing high level athletes. Just check out the gym he ran for the 10 years before joining the yankees. It just drips ELEET!!

http://www.ballenisles.com/clubten.html wfs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
It seems to me that intensity is one of the guiding principles of Crossfit, and one of the things that differentiates it from other programs using the same movements.

Which is precisely why it may not be a good choice for GPP for athletes, who by definition need to be spending most of their energy training for their sport.

Katherine
Intensity is nothing new. In fact, I would say it is the cornerstone of every good program.

We act like the concepts of crossfit are new. They aren't. It is the way every athlete has and should train.


This is the perfect example of how an athlete should train. If you watch the whole series you will see sport specific stuff. Undeniably there are movement patterns that are unique to each and every sport. But watch his actual training, the strength and conditioning stuff. The stuff he is doing to develop strength and power are the same things that all athletes should be doing.

Part 1 details the training pyramid. This pyramid could be applied to any sport. I have posted part 4 because is has the most training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFVhwIy_PU WFS
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:43 AM   #47
Eric A. Brown
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post
Yes. Again, the differentiation comes from the individual not the sport.
Wow. Glad I never had you as a coach.

How I trained for hockey was vastly different than how I trained for weightlifting. For obvious reasons. No one cared what I could snatch or clean as long as I could put the puck in the net, and there is no reason for hockey players to do jerks.

And, of course, now that I am a powerlifter, my training is once again different. Why? Because I want different results.

I really cannot figure out if you are serious or trolling.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:50 AM   #48
adam adkins
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by Eric A. Brown View Post
Wow. Glad I never had you as a coach.

How I trained for hockey was vastly different than how I trained for weightlifting. For obvious reasons. No one cared what I could snatch or clean as long as I could put the puck in the net, and there is no reason for hockey players to do jerks.

And, of course, now that I am a powerlifter, my training is once again different. Why? Because I want different results.

I really cannot figure out if you are serious or trolling.
I am not comparing hockey to powerlifting to weightlifting.

I am comparing hockey to football to baseball ......
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:58 AM   #49
Andrew James
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

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Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post
I am not comparing hockey to powerlifting to weightlifting.

I am comparing hockey to football to baseball ......
So in other words, you didn't like Eric's original question, so you answered a different one.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:59 AM   #50
adam adkins
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Re: Defranco on Crossfit for Athletes

And actually now that I think about it the training for hockey and weightlifting aren't as different as you may think.

Again, the goal is to develop strength and power. That goal is the same whether you are an oly lifter or a hockey player. The difference is in the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal of a hockey player is to be a better hockey player. The goal of a oly lifter is to C&J and snatch as much weight as possible.

So if you boil it down, the methods of building strength and power are virtually identical in either athlete. And both athletes will spend substantial time perfecting their respective craft. Obviously the skill sessions of each athletes training is very specific but that not what we are discussing here.
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