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Old 01-06-2008, 03:46 PM   #101
Brandon Oto
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

I am most confused. Is that Sage Burgener with an early arm bend?
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:45 PM   #102
Jason Lollar
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Brandon,

Naw, It's Aimee Anaya (2008 Olympic hopeful) W/F/Safe http://www.aimeeanaya.com/

I agree there is a touch of early-arms, but the movement complex of a high hang clean followed by a hang clean followed by a floor clean is a great way to work technique (reverse order as shown to work power in the second pull)....and although perfect technique is always the best example I think the point of the short clip was to show the combination so those at home know how to do the 3-Position Clean when it is in the WOD (over at Catalyst Athletics --- Greg's shop).
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:03 PM   #103
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Aimee and Sage both tend to bend their arms when they clean. "Early arm bend" is somewhat of an inaccurate description for them. It's more like just a second pull with bent arms (if that distinction makes any sense). It's not a good habit either way, and I think Aimee developed it over the years because she tends to scoop too early and consequently tries to bring the bar higher toward her hips to keep from pushing it forward as far, but it's not really enough of a problem to spend much time trying to fix. She and Sage have both corrected the arm bend in their snatches, which is the lift it really affects.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:10 PM   #104
Brandon Oto
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Hmm. You're saying they manage to pull with arms slightly bent, but still locked (that is, rigid and transferring power)?
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:16 PM   #105
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
Hmm. You're saying they manage to pull with arms slightly bent, but still locked (that is, rigid and transferring power)?
As rigid as arms can be when partially bent, yes. Some of the power is no doubt getting lost in some slight extension of the arms during the last phase of the second pull, but the key point is that both athletes have more than enough power for this to not have a considerable impact on the clean.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:22 PM   #106
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

I've noticed in my own lifting that I start bending my arms exactly 1/24th of second too soon. Ya'll can sue me for it if you like! I could spend hours and hours fixing that one issue to make my lifts go up 2 kilos or I could spend that same effort on squats and add 10 kilos.

Casey bends his arms in the snatch early too. Yet another lifter that gives Mike gray hair! (probably why he shaves his head)

We chase perfection but that does not mean we will always catch it. The moment we improve our technique with X kilos on the bar then the amount weight on the bar goes up and the process starts all over again.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:34 PM   #107
Brandon Oto
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Hard to argue with that. It's hard to motivate myself to fix my pulling problems when the bar's still apexing a foot higher than my catch position. (Yes, more squats.) Guess everyone has their bottleneck.
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:00 PM   #108
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Yes, everyone has their bottlenecks and it's not the same bottleneck for everyone. Certain bottlenecks are tried-and-true favorites, however.

There is a law of performance tuning that states, "Eliminating one bottleneck always uncovers another."

In the example you gave, the speed of the pull-under is a bottleneck. You are having to pull the bar a foot higher than someone who has a quicker pull under. If you were to learn how to generate lightning speed under the bar, your ability to stand up with a heavy weight (i.e. squat strength) would then rise in importance as an uncovered bottleneck.
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:37 AM   #109
Brandon Oto
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Well, to be more accurate, I'm CATCHING it much higher than is necessary; point being that there's plenty of power on the pull and the squat is the hardest part. (wfs ex. http://degreesofclarity.com/misc/cro...98_11-8-07.mov)

But now we're getting distracted...
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Old 01-07-2008, 05:21 PM   #110
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Re: Clean and Squat Clean - I've got a long way to go

Wow. Lincoln hits the nail on the head. I'm focusing more on pulling the weight high instead of pulling myself under.

I'm taking that one step at a time because I'm finally getting comfortable catching the weight with bent knees. Seriously. I could not do that 10 weeks ago.

In reading a lot of the above, I'm starting to understand it. I know that in Kono's book he shows the early arm bend of Ken Patera as compared to Alexeev and Serge Redding. He said that Ken was likely stronger than both Redding and Alexeev, but his technical flaws caused him to be 5 to 10 kilos behind both Redding and Alexeev.

All those guys were moving weights that were just unbelievable. Moreover, Patera, Aimee, and Casey are all unbelievable incredibly strong fast athletes.

I honestly never see myself never competing in an olympic lifting. I simply want to get faster and better in my sport. I couldn't continue on the path I was (training like a bodybuilder) and do that - that's the reason I started training more crossfit. What I found is that this community led me to olympic lifting and kettlebell lifting. Perfect adjuncts for an aging athlete who wants to prolong his strength and continue his athletic evolution.

I'm finding that slight changes in form means a ton. A big ton. That was the main impetus in starting this thread and learning the right way to do it. Guys like Lincoln, Greg, Brandon, Allen, etc. have been awesome. And I hope I'm showing some change. I know I feel like I'm doing it differently. It's getting a lot easier for some reason. I write that off to you guys, Coach Randy, and my persistence. Thanks.

Here's what I did in my most recent workout. I'm working my hardest on keeping my shoulders in front of the bar as long as I can. I also moved my tall clean drills before my floor cleans.

tall cleans and cleans: 95x3/95x3,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIAH-H4Pzeg

Then 135x3, 135x3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0dq5atee4

Then 155x3, 185x3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54ZbBqVMMY0

Then 165x3, 225x2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzvQSm1AI3c

Then 175x3, 245x2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE6zwFKDKF8

Then 135x3, 205x3 didn't get this video

I just have to say the time, effort, analysis, and thought Greg puts into these posts are absolutely awesome. I sincerely, as do others, appreciate it.

All the best,
Arden
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