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Old 05-27-2015, 04:44 PM   #1
Olga Akselrod
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Weightlifting strength help please

I have been doing crossfit for a little over a year, ran, played tennis, went to globo gym and did weights, stayed in a very good shape all the time prior to crossfit, 5"6", 130lb, with ~8% body fat.

I'm pretty good at metcons, pretty much anything with my own bodyweight and gymnastics comes fairly easy, (pull ups, push ups, and etc ) but when it comes to barbell, my strength seems to increases veryyyy slowly, a lot slower that everything else, any suggestions/ideas why that could be?

I eat heathy and try to supplement with protein shakes 3 times a a day, follow my affiliate coaching programming which has a lot of emphasis on strength, so really stuck at what it could be.

Thank you!
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Old 05-28-2015, 02:14 AM   #2
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

http://games.crossfit.com/athlete/229678 wfs

Is this you?

It's hard to judge you on just this. I mean, you could have had off-days on those Open WOD's for all we know.

What do you Back Squat? What do you Snatch and Clean&Jerk? What's your Deadlift for instance and press/benchpress/pushpress?

Do you have any athletic background, your parents?
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Old 05-28-2015, 02:17 AM   #3
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Quote:
follow my affiliate coaching programming which has a lot of emphasis on strength
After reviewing the last 2-3 weeks of their programming, I would say it's a moderate emphasis on strength.

If you don't Snatch or Clean N Jerk all that often, these lifts will tend to not go anywhere once you are past the point you can just brute muscle it. TBH, Snatch isn't really about developing strength as it is about technique and speed and mobility whereas CnJ is all about strength and power.

It looks like I see squats up two twice a week as well as press/push press twice a week which is decent. Long complexes aren't really about developing strength such as the Bear Complex.
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:25 PM   #4
Olga Akselrod
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Yes, it's me, I just started doing crossfit, so these were the very first tries, my back squat is 190-195, my deadlift is 265, press is 93, push press 125, bench press 130-135#, clean and jerk is 130#, snatch non existent, not enough technique yet
I do have an athletic background, parents - dad, semi athletic, not pro
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Old 05-28-2015, 01:38 PM   #5
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Yeah, I saw the #110 CJ and figured you probably CJ about BW. Most people seem to CJ about 80-90% of their 1rm in part B of the first WOD.

BS is supposed to be 130% of CJ so you're CJ is a bit under that but not by much. With a PP of #125, you should be jerking at least #150.

My guess is you just don't do enough barbell stuff to be efficient at them. If you want to hit heavy attempts, you need to train heavy attempts. 80%+.

Snatching is obviously about technique and practice.

And if it comes do doing the barbell movements in metcons, you just need to be used to doing said movements in volume, especially at the heavier spectrum. So Barbell Cycling (what Outlaw calls it) and doing EMOM's
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Old 05-28-2015, 01:49 PM   #6
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Not looking at this week and next week (because of the Regionals weekend).

Su- Lunges for 6rm for strength. Umm, whatever. Sure.
Sa -5x5 (ascending?)
Fri- Tommy V then 7x1 PSn+Sn complex, 4x2 110% SnDL, PP 5-5-3-3-3-3
Th- Split Jerk 5x2
W- Strength : Clean (Squat)
EMOM 12m, 3 heavy reps (min 1-4), 2 heavy reps (min 5-8), 1 heavy rep (min 9-12) Multi rep sets should be TnG
WL: Clean Pulls, EMOM 8m, 1 @ 110% best clean, then 33 high bar back squat, heavy as hell
[So a bit confusing not exactly sure what would be done but Cleans, pulls, SQ?
Tu- Press 4-4-3-3-2-2
M- Strength : Front Squat
31 with 10s pause in bottom, increase throughout
then 33 no pause, increase throughout
51 Clean + 2 Jerk, get heavy, then 33 high bar backsquat (yes even after all the front squats)

Sa-Sn EMOM to 1rm or 5x5 BS
Fri- Sj 1rm
Th- BP 5x2
W- EMOM Sn to 1rm, 10 reps@80%
Tu- PJ 5x3
M- 6x3 BS
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Old 05-28-2015, 01:58 PM   #7
Olga Akselrod
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Thank you Blair!
How would you recommend adding more barbell stuff, I take a class every morning, usually come 30 min before to warm up, stretch, take class which is strength and wod, then stay for another hour, hour and half to do extra stuff my coach programms. What barbell stuff would you concentrate on at the beginning, would you try to do a second session in the evening, I would like to eventually get to a level where i can compete, at least small local competitions, luckily i also have a somewhat of a flexible schedule. In general how much time do you think needs to be spend on daily basis on barbell stuff?
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Old 05-28-2015, 07:22 PM   #8
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Here's the thing about ascending sets which I'm thinking they are using.

For beginners, this is fine. For those that are immediate level, it's generally not enough and for advanced, sometimes it can be fine given the loads they can lift (so it minimizes total load).

Let's say I do an ascending set of 5's for BS.

That might be 135, 205, 255, 285, 315. I'm probably only being challenged in the last 2 sets. The first 3 are just warmups. 255 is 65%ish of my current 1rm and possibly not even that if I was fresh. It would be slightly taxing but it's still a warmup.

For you that might be 90,110,130,150,160. 130 might start to get a bit challenging. It's nearly 70%.

Same thing goes for pretty much every other exercise.

So the question is whether these are ascending sets, as I usually see in most CF gyms, or sets across.

5x2+1 CJ. I would probably go 115, 155, 185, 200, 210, if I was fairly fresh. That's maybe 3 challenging sets and really only the last 2 are definitely challenging as they would be above 85% (yeah my lifts got weak).

A way to change this up might be warmup to something you feel you could do 5x2+1 across or 7x1 across instead of just ascending sets.
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:59 PM   #9
Olga Akselrod
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Thank you!
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Old 06-01-2015, 02:08 AM   #10
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Weightlifting strength help please

Quote:
In general how much time do you think needs to be spend on daily basis on barbell stuff?
That last post was supposed to be a continuation of the one before but I forgot to post it.

I think you have to figure out how much you have time to train and of course, at what point can you recover from said training. Basically how much training you can manage that won't leave you burnt out and push past your ability to recover (this will change over time with training but will take some months to build up). There is no use in planning a super awesome program of multiple sessions on a lot of days if there is no feasible way you can actually do it (barring day to day emergencies or hiccups).

IF you are going to split training sessions/day try to keep them as far apart as possible. OTOH, split sessions every day can be quite time consuming with travel times to and from the gym, warming up, etc. You can save time on some stuff if you can do it at home (or the gym if you work at the gym on down time).

Take a look at your weaknesses. I prefer gymnastics/BW exercises done for learning purposes done when as fresh as possible. If it's about building work capacity and you can already walk in a handstand or do muscle-ups, pistols, etc then it's fine to do it after a barbell session or even after a WOD.

But if your WL technique or gymnastics technique need refinement, prioritize it. I don't think this is necessarily the same thing with elements such as rowing, running but if you are working on learning something new or refining it, do it when fresh vs exhausted. Swim technique is a bit more complicated than running IMO but I may be taking running technique for granted.

I think taking a look at Invictus, Outlaw, TZStrength, OPT, other CF programs like that would be a lot better than I can think of, especially with regarding metcons and work capacity (my forte is gymnastics then a few years of weightlifting).

Taking a look at those two weeks, you jerked twice each week which is decent. One week, you cleaned twice and the other you snatched twice. And just about squatted three times a week (which is fine as well).

Rough guidelines would be to snatch twice a week at least, CnJ at least once with perhaps another day of cleans (and figuring you'll be working on jerks probably twice as well). So that means 3 sessions at least a week though you can pair them up if you have the time and can hit them both in one session.

Actually that's exactly what I do now pretty much. Snatch work twice, CJ once, Cleans another day, Jerks twice besides that (as the Jerk is also paired with the Clean on another day). I might take 5-7 warmup sets and 3-5 worksets in a typical session besides maybe a few sets of pulls on the snatch/clean days. I'm not saying you need that much volume but compare that to 5 ascending sets. However a 20 minute EMOM that was planned would probably be more than enough given 1/2 of those reps were at 80%+.

For you, you could possibly do it like those other CF Hybrid programs do it. One or two snatch drills and/or one or two clean drills per session/day or jerk work. This gets down to how much time. If you only are going to WL a few days a week, you can pair it together vs
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