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Old 12-04-2013, 02:26 PM   #31
Darryl Shaw
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by Christopher Morris View Post
I do IV sedation at my office, and it's DEFINITELY easier to find a vein is someone who has had some water that morning vs. someone who has not. A dehydrated patient often means multiple sticks before I find a vein.
I'd have to agree with this.

I've had to undergo a number of water deprivation tests over the years and the nurses have no trouble finding a vein at the start when I'm well hydrated, but it becomes increasingly difficult for them as I become dehydrated and the veins flatten out. I'm an extreme case though as I have diabetes insipidus and can lose 3% or more of my bodyweight in water in a matter of hours.

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As far as dehydration for morning workouts? Drink water when you wake up. Simple.
This would be my advice too. Drink when you're thirsty, you don't need to overthink it.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:47 PM   #32
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by AlbertQMoy View Post
Thanks for all the help. I was asking because lately, I've been getting cotton-mouth during metcon WODs so I figured I wasn't drinking enough water to begin with. I wasn't sure if I just needed to drink a ton of water the night before to help. But I can tell after this, I just need to drink water throughout the day and I'll be fine.

-Albert
A good way to solve cottonmouth during a workout is to take a sip of water occasionally during the workout. Of course, that will hose up your "intensity" and keep you from "reaping the full benefit of your WOD" but it will stop the cottonmouth
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:14 AM   #33
Frank Fusco
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Sorry Chris, dont have any links available and lack of time to search for it. Maybe Darryl does?

All I have is a couple of information, such as water raises ph to >4.0 and peptin needs ph ~2.0 to work. Since its not such a big deal to not drink water while eating I will just continue not to do so. Not that im stressed about it, as others have suggested, I just dont see it as a problem.
The pH of gastric acid is 1.5 to 3.5. Water immediately raises gastric pH to about 6. However, it returns to normal very quickly, falling back down below 4 within about 3 minutes.

http://link.springer.com/article/10....620-008-0301-3 (wfs)

In many cases, water actually helps with digestion.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/digestion/AN01776 (wfs)
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:14 AM   #34
Christopher Morris
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Insulin, spiked by blood glucose increases, stimulates NO production and thus dilation of blood vessels. It is also known as "endothelium-derived relaxing factor".
Excellent. I can use this information.

When I did my IV training a couple years ago, I was taught about pre-sedation diet. No eating is allowed for six hours to avoid food aspiration if the hiatal sphincter relaxes.

We talked at length about how veins flatten out, roll, or blow out, and how dehydration is a factor. I learned that my patients should drink clear fluids leading up to their sedation appointment. "Clear fluids" was defined as water, apple juice, or soda. Non-clear fluids that should not be consumed included milk, or coffee with creamer. (This was taught in the context of dehydration, and we didn't get into blood sugar, insulin, and EDRF.) I have generally told my patients to drink water. Now that I've learned about insulin and blood vessel dilation, I see the benefit of drinking juice. Juice will spike insulin and dilate vessels, making IV sticks easier. If my patient has hydrated AND had a little sugar, that will make the morning run more smoothly for everyone.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:57 AM   #35
Chris Mason
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by Christopher Morris View Post
Excellent. I can use this information.

When I did my IV training a couple years ago, I was taught about pre-sedation diet. No eating is allowed for six hours to avoid food aspiration if the hiatal sphincter relaxes.

We talked at length about how veins flatten out, roll, or blow out, and how dehydration is a factor. I learned that my patients should drink clear fluids leading up to their sedation appointment. "Clear fluids" was defined as water, apple juice, or soda. Non-clear fluids that should not be consumed included milk, or coffee with creamer. (This was taught in the context of dehydration, and we didn't get into blood sugar, insulin, and EDRF.) I have generally told my patients to drink water. Now that I've learned about insulin and blood vessel dilation, I see the benefit of drinking juice. Juice will spike insulin and dilate vessels, making IV sticks easier. If my patient has hydrated AND had a little sugar, that will make the morning run more smoothly for everyone.
What you learned was to cover an eventuality, not an absolute. Well fed individuals don't wake up in a dehydrated state.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:25 AM   #36
Dakota Base
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Dont do that. Drinking water during or soon after a meal will affect stomach's acid thus making digestion harder (which can lead into all sorts of issues). Drink water at least 30mins after.
This is a common misconception. In the AVERAGE person without known stomach/GI issues, drinking normal volumes of water during or following a meal will not have a significant effect on stomach pH. Our stomachs are not a closed reactor system, and our bodies have natural means to "buffer" against pH swings in our stomach. Specifically, acid production increases when we eat, we have buffers in our stomach to maintain digestion pH, and excess bile is stored in the gall bladder for exactly such occasions when the stomach content may be diluted and pH might raise above optimal digestive ranges. If the meal consisted of proteins, amino acids will be released that also kick the pH in our stomachs down. Assuming someone isn't on a highly basic diet already (so called "alkaline diet" is probably one of the most dangerous diet fads I've ever seen), and I'd estimate it's a safe assumption that most crossfitters won't be on an alkaline diet, and assuming someone doesn't have some other known pre-existing digestive disorder or condition (i.e. has had their gall bladder removed), a bit of neutral water will have no ill effect.

This is a case of partial understanding getting passed around, and eventually a misconception becomes common perception. Too many people that don't understand biochemistry, physiology, or even high school level chemistry and anatomy go around spouting out "rules" like this based on half-science, and then rumors spread and suddenly someone like Dare, who seems to be studying such things, gets fed a bunch of misinformation as if it were gospel.

To the point of drinking in the morning before workouts, I believe the question has been answered, but the reality of the matter is that your body can only absorb so much water so quickly. The best guidance we have to date supports about 600mL, or ~20oz of water per hour. So if you get up an hour before you workout, a tall glass of water is about all you can absorb before you start, and the same volume again during an hour long workout.

I do believe, however, that it IS important to hydrate both in the morning, and pre-workout. Ideally, in the morning you've had 8hrs of respiratory water loss (and a little "bed sweat" too). Most people also "purge fluids" in the mornings, to vacate the urine build up from the last 8hrs. So by default, you're starting your day at a deficit. Just like how we call it "breakfast" because we're "breaking our overnight fast", you've also spent the last 8hrs without any fluid intake. Steady fluid intake in the mornings to replace that water loss will produce a noticeable/felt difference.

I'd also argue that a "big breakfast" if you've only woken up 1 hour before your intense workout probably isn't advisable. This is conceptualizing that in order for water to impede digestion, you'd have to have sustained digestion of a large quantity of food, meaning you've had a big breakfast. Eating a big breakfast, finishing 30-40min before a workout isn't advisable no matter what time of day, or what you're drinking. So really, for pre-workout water to have any potential to effect pre-workout digestion, you've already made the major mistake of eating a meal that has sent your digestive system to the brink of imbalance right before a workout.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:08 AM   #37
Chris Mason
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by Dakota Base View Post
This is a common misconception. In the AVERAGE person without known stomach/GI issues, drinking normal volumes of water during or following a meal will not have a significant effect on stomach pH. Our stomachs are not a closed reactor system, and our bodies have natural means to "buffer" against pH swings in our stomach. Specifically, acid production increases when we eat, we have buffers in our stomach to maintain digestion pH, and excess bile is stored in the gall bladder for exactly such occasions when the stomach content may be diluted and pH might raise above optimal digestive ranges. If the meal consisted of proteins, amino acids will be released that also kick the pH in our stomachs down. Assuming someone isn't on a highly basic diet already (so called "alkaline diet" is probably one of the most dangerous diet fads I've ever seen), and I'd estimate it's a safe assumption that most crossfitters won't be on an alkaline diet, and assuming someone doesn't have some other known pre-existing digestive disorder or condition (i.e. has had their gall bladder removed), a bit of neutral water will have no ill effect.

This is a case of partial understanding getting passed around, and eventually a misconception becomes common perception. Too many people that don't understand biochemistry, physiology, or even high school level chemistry and anatomy go around spouting out "rules" like this based on half-science, and then rumors spread and suddenly someone like Dare, who seems to be studying such things, gets fed a bunch of misinformation as if it were gospel.

To the point of drinking in the morning before workouts, I believe the question has been answered, but the reality of the matter is that your body can only absorb so much water so quickly. The best guidance we have to date supports about 600mL, or ~20oz of water per hour. So if you get up an hour before you workout, a tall glass of water is about all you can absorb before you start, and the same volume again during an hour long workout.

I do believe, however, that it IS important to hydrate both in the morning, and pre-workout. Ideally, in the morning you've had 8hrs of respiratory water loss (and a little "bed sweat" too). Most people also "purge fluids" in the mornings, to vacate the urine build up from the last 8hrs. So by default, you're starting your day at a deficit. Just like how we call it "breakfast" because we're "breaking our overnight fast", you've also spent the last 8hrs without any fluid intake. Steady fluid intake in the mornings to replace that water loss will produce a noticeable/felt difference.

I'd also argue that a "big breakfast" if you've only woken up 1 hour before your intense workout probably isn't advisable. This is conceptualizing that in order for water to impede digestion, you'd have to have sustained digestion of a large quantity of food, meaning you've had a big breakfast. Eating a big breakfast, finishing 30-40min before a workout isn't advisable no matter what time of day, or what you're drinking. So really, for pre-workout water to have any potential to effect pre-workout digestion, you've already made the major mistake of eating a meal that has sent your digestive system to the brink of imbalance right before a workout.
You are starting your day in a deficit? Really? Oh boy...
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:06 PM   #38
Dakota Base
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Re: How to properly hydrate for an early AM WOD

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
You are starting your day in a deficit? Really? Oh boy...
Wake up in the morning, don't drink anything for 3hrs. Note how you feel and the color of your urine (assuming you don't have access to chromatography or spectroscopy equipment).

Next week, pick 3hrs in the afternoon and don't drink anything. Repeat the monitoring process.

Hydration state first thing in the morning doesn't mean nearly as much as what happens afterwards. So literal deficit or not at the moment of waking (which I think is varied by whatever motive the association conducting the study is looking to prove anyway), compare the ramp thereafter, not much comparison.
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