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Old 09-26-2010, 03:00 PM   #1
Daniel Dean
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SS-esque program for gymnastics?

Is there a Starting Strength-style program for beginner gymnastics training? I have a fibula injury that is going to keep me out of running, plyos and heavy lifts for 4-6 weeks and I figured it would be a good opportunity to work on my gymnastics skills. However, I am having trouble finding a basic program to follow.

The Killroy 70 (http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/vie...hp?f=14&t=1957 WFS) is the closest I have found, but it seems like more of an outline and I don't know enough to fill in specifics. Would it make more sense if I bought BtGB?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:48 PM   #2
David Meverden
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

I've wondered about this one too. The program you linked is as close as I've seen to a beginner gymnastic strength program. It's pretty much a linear progression because he does 4-6 sets x 3-5 reps of each assistance exercise, moving to a harder version as soon as he can do 5x5. To know what really good exercise progressions are, though, you'll probably need Sommer's book, though a few you could get from here: http://www.beastskills.com/tutorials.htm (WFS).
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:22 PM   #3
Aushion Chatman
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

Do you particularly WANT to do an SS style program or do you just mean you want a beginner gymnastics program?

If you want beginner programming I suggest you simply follow the WODs at GB.com

Coach Sommer has been programming those WODs for much longer than the site has existed. And you get the benefits of his years of experience,

Then as you become more experienced in how your body reacts to gymnastic training, you can begin playing with the programming for yourself.

I definitely would NOT call that program "linear progression", in fact Kilroy states as much:

"One thing I've discovered that has helped me is to change my mindset away from how I used to approach my weight training workouts. Whether I was doing powerlifting, "general" strength training, etc.., my programs were geared towards adding weight in pre-planned increments over time, sometimes from workout to workout, sometimes weekly, etc... What I've found with my BtGB program is that I have to be much more patient. What I mean is that when looking at, say, barbell overhead press: if you told me that sticking with 150 lbs for 5 sets of 3 reps for 6 weeks was the way to go, I'd say you were crazy and that I could find a better periodized model to make faster gains. However, with my BtGB program, I've had to look at progression increments as something achieved over longer time-period-steps. For example: I was "stuck" (at least I thought I was stuck) in an advanced tuck back lever for weeks and weeks."

....there is a bunch of stuff going on in Kilroy's template. He has his statics training which he states he did all 4 movements each day, 7-10 sets @ unknown durations as he progressed...

Then he states he set up a 4 day/week rotation for his dynamic work in 3-5 sets at 3-5 reps, again not a whole lot of detail in how exactly he configured his programming. But he did state he didn't switch to a new progression until he coudl do 5x5 solidly and it sounds for periodization sake he stuck with that movement for a week or two at 5x5 before moving on.

I guess my advice would be to get the book, follow the WODs substituting any movements beyond your current capability with movements that mirror where you are in each progression. Or put simply, follow the WODs but scale approrpriately.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:39 PM   #4
Steven Low
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

My take wfs
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/0...ength-training


The GB WODs are too high volume for most people when starting IMO.

I'm currently trying to write a book on bodyweight programming (at 112 pages currently), but don't get your hopes up cause it'll probably be early next year at best.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:46 PM   #5
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

Cool Steven been a long time since I've been to your site...looks good man.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:15 PM   #6
Daniel Dean
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aushion Chatman View Post
If you want beginner programming I suggest you simply follow the WODs at GB.com
I looked through them, they seem to be a bit all over the place though. Take some recent workouts posted just last week:

40’ Senders
20 Squat Jumps
10 Box jumps
5 Depth Jumps

5x60m Sled Sprint
5x5 Natural Leg Curl
2x5 Weighted Jumping Deck Squats

1 Embedded BL + 5 Yewkis
1 Embedded XR L-sit + 5 PL Dips
1 Embedded FL + 5 Negative Front Pulls

That fits with a common complaint I read about the GB WODs that they had lots of odd exercises not talked about in the book and that they weren't straightforward for beginners to follow. And anything like a box jump or sled sprint is a no go right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aushion Chatman View Post
I definitely would NOT call that program "linear progression"
I don't really care about the linear progression aspect of SS here, I just want a program to follow that has a similarly simple structure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aushion Chatman View Post
....there is a bunch of stuff going on in Kilroy's template...not a whole lot of detail in how exactly he configured his programming.
Exactly, it's a good outline but I don't feel like I have the knowledge to fill it in with an effective program.


Steven - Your article is actually where I found Killroy's plan. Great stuff, I guess I'll just have try and create something using your recommendations, some of Killroy and beastskills.

I guess it would also be helpful to let people know where I am starting from. I can do 10-12 consecutive muscle ups, ~15s L-sit, 10-15s bent-leg FL and BL, 10-12 consecutive HSPU against a wall, no freestanding handstand.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:00 PM   #7
David Meverden
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

Daniel: What's your height and weight?

I found Killroy's plan fairly straight forward, IF you know what progressions to use. For example, on day 1, after you work the 4 skills you work every day, you attempt 5 rep sets of your pushing exercise (shooting for 5 sets), then 5 rep sets of your pulling exercise. You use the hardest exercise in the progression that you can get quality sets with. I think the only difficulty is that you have to know that the progression is:
"Bulgarian XR pushups -->Psuedo planche pushups (PPPups)-->PPPups, feet elevated, hands on blocks-->XR PPPups"

I assume all the progressions Killroy used are in the book, right?

Aushion: All I meant when I said it was linear was that you only go up in resistance. You don't cycle the resistance (changed by altering the leverage used) up and down in a periodized way to try and make gains. You just stick with one resistance until you get it, then make it harder and stick with it until you get that one, and so on.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:55 PM   #8
Daniel Dean
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Daniel: What's your height and weight?
5-6, 155

I could probably figure out Killroy if I bought the book, but this is just a temporary programming change while my fibula heals and I have already invested more time into figuring out a workout plan than I had hoped to.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:11 AM   #9
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

The thing you want to do is:

1. Make a list of your goals that you want to get
2. Select exercises to focus on those goals
3. Structure those exercises into a routine
4. Select proper difficulty of said exercises
5. Select a proper progression method (can be workout to workout or week to week)
6. Do for ~6 weeks... take a deload week and reevaluate skills at the end.

Repeat step #1 if you accomplished goals or want to take a different focus. Otherwise, repeat #2-6
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:41 AM   #10
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Re: SS-esque program for gymnastics?

Well for GB WODs Coach is on a month long cycle. If you were to look at a few months of WODs as a whole it is very easy to see the template IMO.

The great thing about most trainers is that they are constantly learning and evolving. Unfortunately a book is a snap-shot in time. Coach Sommer is actively working on a 2nd edition to BtGB to remedy the program from some of the assumptions he made about where people are starting. I've heard him say himself that he assumed a fitness level of beginner that was too advanced.

But I will say all those exercises you listed ARE in the book, except for the sled sprints, which I would think are pretty self-explanatory.

At any rate I like Kilroy's template, start with some statics and build systematically up.

I like how Steven recommends the Manna for balance...Also like Steven's questions...I think you can figure this out fairly simply...pick some goals and move forward. Your body/attitude/progress will let you know if your programming sucks. Here is how I did my program.

Based on my experience with various injuries etc I decided joint prep/pre-hab/re-hab is a staple. I used various websites, blogs, youtube videos, seminars to find joint prep exercises for ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, elbows, and wrist.

Because gymnastics is upper-body intensive I do some shoulder, elbow, wrist stuff nearly daily...Every Saturday I do a shoulder pre-hab routine, religiously. This and maybe a run and/or stretching is all I do on Saturday.

I rotate the ankles, knees, hips routines throughout my workout week, so I hit at least one of those joints in a standard fashion almost twice a week. K-Star's mobility WOD, Ido Portal's blog, and Diesel Crews youtube vids have been key.

I am working the following statics:

Planche
Manna
L-Sit
BL
FL
Ring Support

But I started with the basics BEFORE jumping into these...planks, arch, hollow, body levers, etc...

I like to mix these as well I don't do them everyday like Kilroy did.

then I follow GB WODs except for leg day which like Steven I like barbell stuff...mainly the Oly lifts, but I'll do some powerlifting every now and again. I do a light day on Tues, heavier day on Thurs.

Since I'm at Crossfit San Diego, sometimes I get roped into doing a WOD or two, and I like that just to see where I'm at. And that definitely throws off the routine, especially when I stupidly did death by pull-ups, completely wrecked me for a good week. I am also returning from 6 months off to get my shoulder fixed from a long time ago injury that I just never got taken care of properly, which is why joint prep is something I take very seriously now. Nothing like a nagging/chronic injury to make you see the light.

Not sure if that helps at all,...if you want more specifics just PM me. Steven is probably a much better source but he doesn't always have time for us regulars..
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