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Old 08-11-2007, 10:16 PM   #21
Matt Thomas
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If I go as far down as I possibly can my lower back rounds and my butt droops like in video number 1. It straightens out as I come back up. Should I stop squatting this low and only go as low as I can while keeping my back straight or should I continue to squat full depth and just keeping working on my flexiblity and trying to straighten it out? Is it dangerous for the back to do that at the bottom of a squat?
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:38 PM   #22
Joshua Bird
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Matt,

Yes it is dangerous. I have the same problem as you and I box squat as low as I can while keeping the arch in the lower back. I'm going to work on the drills that Boris outlined until I can go full depth without rounding. Also, if you keep going full depth with the rounding still happening you are reinforcing bad mechanics. There is a great thread about it here:

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/41450.html
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:09 PM   #23
Boris Bachmann
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I've had a lot of discussions about this over the past couple of months. To be honest, the only thing I am 100% sure of is that everyone should be trying their damndest to maintain their arch throughout the entire range of motion.

Lyle McDonald told me that he had discussed the idea w. Marty Gallagher and that Marty said something along the lines of flattening was natural and nothing to be concerned about. No one would question Marty's knowledge of lifting, but I don't know what to think of that. I don't agree but I respect the hell out of Marty Gallagher.

Squat Rx #13: Box Squats, Pause Squats, and Oscillatory-Isometric Squats
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDFR3bXhl4Q

As soon as I uploaded this, I realized that I was doing "Oscillatory-Reactive" squats rather than "Oscillatory-Isometric" squats. A true oscillatory-isometric squat would pause at the top of the range of motion before free falling an inch or two below the sticking point. Doing this would allow you to 'reset" a little and make maintain a groove a little easier than what I showed in the video.

Anywho, I hope you like it and can learn something from it.

Boris
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Old 08-13-2007, 09:53 PM   #24
Dave Winchester
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Thanks Boris, I think the videos are very informative.

I have just as of lately begun to notice that I may have some tailbone tucking going on; however, I'll need to find where the digicam went so I can get a video (looking sideways in the mirror sans weight only leaves room for suspicion).

Either way, I really liked all the mobility and stretching drills; I'm now adding them to my warm-up as they really made my hips loosen up more.

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Old 08-13-2007, 10:46 PM   #25
Boris Bachmann
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I'm glad to hear that - thanks!

I've posted some thoughts about a few of the exercises in Squat Rx #5 - apparently, Mike Boyle and Shirley Sahrmann advise against rotational exercises in general. I personally think that, in life, you twist and if you aren't flopping around like a fish, windshield wipers et. al can be stability-building exercises, BUT if Mike Boyle and Shirley Sahrmann say so, it is something that should be listened to very carefully.

So, I guess I'm saying be careful and use your good judgement.
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Old 08-14-2007, 03:31 PM   #26
Dave Winchester
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Boris, considering the fact that I have tight hamstrings (and other muscles to boot), what would you recommend for stretching frequency? Until maybe a week ago I never stretched after a workout.

I was thinking 2-3 times a day doing some static stretches over the whole body to get ROM where it's needed. Think it's overkill?
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:23 PM   #27
Boris Bachmann
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I'm sorry, but I really couldn't advise you on specific stretching protocol except to say, just like lifting, you really need to build into it. If you've never really stretched before, it's going to be very easy to overdo it. Almost all of my stretching for squatting, personally, consists of bottom position work, glute stretches, IT band stretches, and traditional hamstring stretches and I do them prior to training - I know, I know everyone says how bad it is and it makes you weak, etc., but I do it anyway. I also do it when I'm just sitting around the boob tube.

There are probably great resources on the web - I'll keep an eye out for some. I really like Pavel's stuff. Starke's book is pretty good, but it could be dated now. I'll look into it for you, but start doing some research and let me know what you come up with.

(Message edited by Boris on August 16, 2007)
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:09 AM   #28
Dave Winchester
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Fair enough. I'll research it and send anything interesting your way, also.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:34 PM   #29
Ben Moskowitz
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Re: Squat Rx Videos

http://drillsandskills.com/stretching
http://www.stadion.com/
http://www.trickstutorials.com/index...nt/flexibility go to steps 2 and 3
http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/...ec/stretching/

All links safe, to various relevant materials on flexibility for squatting

I would say they are ranked in order of authority/helpfulness. The tricks tutorials site has an insane number of stretches and is funny though.

As for programming,
here's what I could get from the best of the best:
Stretch. just do it. You probably don't do it, so if you start doing it, kabam! you get flexy. I am working at this level.

Stretch 15-60 seconds per pose/stretch. Shake it out. If you've got the time and the will, repeat for 3-5 sets.

Randomly stretch, intelligently. Just like Coach says to mix up your WOD time of day sometimes, same goes for stretching. Do it a little bit, and do it often. Kinda like myofascial massage.
However, this doesn't mean "oh, I'll just do this stretch cuz it looks cool, and ooh, that one makes me feel all hurty so I'll avoid it."
You should try to stretch all your muscles, especially the ones giving you trouble (for me the list is upper back, front, and shoulders for OHS; glutes, ITB, hams, calves/soleus for squats; hip flexors, quads for lunges cuz I fence; and hey lower back and abs because I can't do bridges, pikes and straddles very well. UUUghh, I think I just covered all the muscles in the body.)
Also, mix up which stretches you do. Do you back squat all day every day? No! There's FS, OHS, trap bar, etc.

This is sorta time consuming if you stretch your entire body. Like... 10-15-20 minutes. Maybe do 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there, you get the idea.

Another couple of things to try are isometric/PNF stretching and dynamic stretching. PNF is basically tensing the muscle for 7-15 seconds, and then releasing. You will drop into greater ROM. It's incredible. Just take it easy with these, like every other day or so.

Dynamic stretching is great for warmup and mobility. Plus, static flexibility in hamstrings is worthless if you don't have the dynamic flexibility to say, drop into a squat.

Passive, a.k.a. "normal" static stretching is good just about anytime. If anything hurts, cut it out. take it easy, and breath deeply and regularly. Breathing actually has a profound effect on relaxing your muscles. You "drop" pretty well with this one too.

Well now, I should quite typing and start stretching.

edit: Just to throw this out there, some of the most functional stretching I believe I have come across are:
Samson stretch
Samson stretch with stick (Dan John)
Shoulder dislocates, inlocates, eagle grip (drills and skills), back and forth, etc.
"Pushing the Universe away" (upper thoracic mobility, see Dan John)
Goblet squat - Mr. Olympia Chest, Buddha belly (breathing, Dan John)
Goblet squat pushing the knees out with the elbows, PNF style
Hanging, Swinging back and forth, and kipping pullups (Coach)

I suppose the "quickest fixes" for lower body flexibility outside of the above are:
front split
side spit

edit:
I think I underrepresented drillsandskills on the "functional" bit, the stretches listed are pretty darn good, comprehensive, and vast.

Last edited by David Wood : 09-01-2007 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Added the standard information (w/fs designation, explanation). Ben, please do this yourself!
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:19 PM   #30
Boris Bachmann
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Re: Squat Rx Videos

Squat Rx #15: The Front Squat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NRmdtSvmQQ

If you are familiar with the front squat, you might find this one pretty basic, but hopefully you'll get something from it.
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