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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 02-12-2009, 06:43 PM   #31
Michael Halbfish
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Jeff, Bingo et al., I am really excited about doing CFSB. Hopefully, we will see a CFE style CFSB web page posting daily WODS. Any thoughts on doing CFSB and CFE at the same time, or doing CFSB with other training.

My recent training (prior to this article )has consisted of
Workout 1 2 sets of 5 DL (PTP style), misc other stuff, Crossfit Wod.
Workout 2 CFE, every other CFE is running
Workout 2 On non CFE days either MaxfitUSA O-Lift WOD, MonkeyBarGym Metcon/Line Drill WOD, Yoga (approx twice weekly), misc. other stuff.

Z-Health, Mobility, balance training and misc. other stuff.


I'm also considering substituting one of the squat days each week for an O-Lift day, and either alternating press days with bench press or adding a set or 2 of benching to other heavy lift days. What are your thoughts?
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:16 PM   #32
James Riley
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Cool idea for thread, thanks.

Someone asked the same question I had in the other thread, and I donít think it was answered all the way; I would like to re-explore it from a different angle.

Here was the basic gist of the question:

1) Article says to use a starting weight 15-20% less then your current max. Why would I do that if I'm looking to max each week in 3's or 5's? Is it to lock in my form? I'm already familiar with heavy loads.

2) Assuming I do as I'm told and start with 20% less then current max, how many weeks should I take to ramp up to my current max?


Here was the answer:

No it's not a waste of time IMHO. I came into this program from Gant's Hybrid and got wrecked. Trust me RECOVERY IS KING when it comes to this program. Proceed with caution, because if you do this program correct it will lead to the town of PRs'ville, if you do it wrong you will get messed up.

So letís apply some math now. Say my 5RM for DL is 325. Taking 20% off for week one puts me at 265. Clearly not a new PR, but I can understand the reduced first week to help you prepare. But then how much are you going up per week? At 10 lbs per week it will take you the whole 6 week cycle to RETURN to your 5RM. Was that the authorís intent for the first six weeks of the program? Even at 20 lbs per week, it will be 4 weeks into the program before your seeing new PRs.
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:22 PM   #33
David Schneider
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

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Originally Posted by Robert Callahan View Post
I am not a CFSB creator, but it would seem to me that they are trying to keep a rest day in between the high rep DL and BS. I would think that 20 reps squats and high rep DLs are going to wreak havoc on recovery more than anything else and thus should be preformed with adequate rest in between. You could try something like this?

Mon: ME BS, High rep Bench, metcon
Tues: ME + high rep DL
Weds: rest
Thurs: ME Bench, metcon
Fri: ME FS, high rep BS, metcon
Sat: ME + high rep Press, metcon
Sun: rest

that way all the high rep stuff that utilizes similar body parts are separated by at least one rest day? I guess this is pretty similar to what David is doing, just a little more spread out with the Bench.... maybe his is better though? Well at least it is tested. How is that working out David??

-Robert
It's going great Robert. I just started but it seems to be working. I put the ME Bench & the high rep Bench on the same day as the BS, as oppose to seperating the ME and High reps for the Bench. Don't know how much difference it would make, of course, I'm probably only going to Bench once a week, so I do it all right on Monday.
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Old 02-13-2009, 12:37 AM   #34
Michael Bruce Mailman
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

I've been wondering... I haven't read the article yet, though of course I should have...

Are there no pull ups in this programme because one should be doing lots of pullups in the metcons?

Cheers
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:07 AM   #35
Chris Kemp
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Riley View Post
Cool idea for thread, thanks.

Someone asked the same question I had in the other thread, and I donít think it was answered all the way; I would like to re-explore it from a different angle.

Here was the basic gist of the question:

1) Article says to use a starting weight 15-20% less then your current max. Why would I do that if I'm looking to max each week in 3's or 5's? Is it to lock in my form? I'm already familiar with heavy loads.

2) Assuming I do as I'm told and start with 20% less then current max, how many weeks should I take to ramp up to my current max?


Here was the answer:

No it's not a waste of time IMHO. I came into this program from Gant's Hybrid and got wrecked. Trust me RECOVERY IS KING when it comes to this program. Proceed with caution, because if you do this program correct it will lead to the town of PRs'ville, if you do it wrong you will get messed up.

So letís apply some math now. Say my 5RM for DL is 325. Taking 20% off for week one puts me at 265. Clearly not a new PR, but I can understand the reduced first week to help you prepare. But then how much are you going up per week? At 10 lbs per week it will take you the whole 6 week cycle to RETURN to your 5RM. Was that the authorís intent for the first six weeks of the program? Even at 20 lbs per week, it will be 4 weeks into the program before your seeing new PRs.
James, let's you jump straight in with your 3 or 5 rep maxes. You say they are already pretty developed. Let's also add a high rep set at a large percentage of that load and then hammer a short often heavy metcon. Do this four days a week.

What do you reckon your chances of getting a PB on anything the following week is going to be?

This program is not only about doing some lifting and keeping up the metcon. It's about developing strength and conditioning that will carry across to our CrossFit workouts. There is a significant workload and in order to hit each facet with the requisiste intensity we've found it's best to ramp into it.

So yeah, the aim of the first cycle is to achieve your existing 3 and 5 RM's whilst adapting to the other demands of the program.

Perhaps the prescription will seem conservative to some who pride themselves on being able to handle lots of abuse. By all means, hasten the process if you think you're tougher than that. But presenting a program to the world we'll take a slightly conservative approach so folks have a chance to see the measurable repeatable results that we've observed.

Cheers, kempie
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:13 AM   #36
Chris Kemp
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bruce Mailman View Post
I've been wondering... I haven't read the article yet, though of course I should have...

Are there no pull ups in this programme because one should be doing lots of pullups in the metcons?

Cheers
Michael, there are lots of things that aren't in the program. It's a program template. The drills specified are some of the best bang for buck for developing strength.

Leaving anything out just meant that for developing strength they weren't the best. Doesn't mean they are not good or useful. So if there is anything else you want to do or think is missing then plug it into the metcons, gymnastic practice sessions or warm-up.

Cheers, kempie
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:04 AM   #37
Jerry Mobbs
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
How did a cycle of CFSB affect your monostructural performances? Positive, negative, or, neither? E.g. times at 5k run, 2k row, etc.
It kicked ***. Big time.

I put on 4kg using CFSB and am at 100kg BW.

My 5km time went from 30 mins to 27:15 today wearing vibrams.

The last 400m was in 1:50 with plenty left in the tank.

This was a big surprise.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:20 AM   #38
Jerry Mobbs
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Belyeu View Post
Since you mentioned running.... I think the CFSB program sounds great and I started it Monday. I am trying to teach myself pose method running with vibram five fingers. I have started with a few short runs around my neighborhood, mixing in running at moderate pace and walking to either catch my breath or just keep fresh and maintain (hopefully) good form. I don't think it would be a big tax on the system, but since rest is stressed in this program, I am unsure on when/where to work on this. Would this be fine as active rest? Should I used this in place of one of the skill work times, or one of the metcons? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Jeff,

This is just my opinion based on my own experience.

1. Wear the VFF all the time, including WODS if you can. Box jumps, snatches and lunges all help you to get used to them

2. If its early days running with them, then really focus on form. As soon as it breaks down, then stop and reset, even if you lose intensity. It's hard enough learning to pose without reinforcing it with bad form.

3. Add some light runs into the warm up. Do a 400m run one day, then 4 slow 100m runs etc. Mix it up and keep good form.

4. After 3/4 months you will find yourself going longer and faster in the VFF. If you rush too quickly, you can end up with really bad calf soreness and it just knocks back progress.

5. If your self taught, then get a coach, or video yourself and get it critiqued by a pose coach.

6. Avoid Helen type efforts in the early days, until your pose form is nailed down. How does it go again? Mechanics- Consistency.....

Hope this helps

Jerry

Last edited by Jerry Mobbs : 02-13-2009 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:30 AM   #39
David Mathews
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Kempie,
Do you always do heavy metcons without exception or do you sometimes do short light ones like Coach Rut uses on his ME days, and do you ever do long ones (e.g. murph, filthy fifties, etc.) in this program? Do you ever do the painstorms anymore? Thanks.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:44 AM   #40
Robert Flynn
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Re: CFSB - Ask your questions here!

Kempie,
Thanks for starting this thread, it has been helpful. Today is front squat day. Would you recommend follwing the posted WOD of Fran, or find something that is not a similar exercise?
Thanks,
Rob
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