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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 03-25-2010, 07:35 PM   #1
Dan Andrews
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What is the likelihood of... ?

Im not looking to start an ethical debate about steroids, that has been discussed at length on here and needs probably no further discussion.

That being said, I was wondering what some of you think the likelihood of this is.

Ive got these two kids in my weight training class, both play multiple sports, and they are about 5'7" or so and weigh about 160 to 170. Ive gathered as much about how they train as I can, they do 2 full body exercises a day (what they constitute as full body im not sure) about 3 days a week, doing 3-5 sets of 12-15 reps. And it seems they only bench press about once a week, and they both max bench press around 340 raw. Now with fairly poor nutrition, their not drinking tons of milk or eating a ton of peanut butter and what have you. There has been alot of speculation that they are on steroids and would like to hear you guys think the likelihood of this is.

I think they are personally, benching 340 raw at a body weight of 165 with poor nutrition and rep schemes geared towards hypertrophy just don't seem to add up to that naturally... They aren't power lifters or anything and they havent been lifting for more than 2 or 3 years at most. Not to mention they both look fairly disproportionate and unnatural.

Thoughts ?
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:11 PM   #2
Thomas Kelley
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

Unless I'm their older brother, parent, or coach, I have no thoughts until they ask me for my opinion. We all have our paths to follow and lessons to learn. By asking on a public forum, I'm not sure this could go anywhere other than an ethical debate, only because the question probably wouldn't arise in your mind outside of this context (given that you don't appear to be asking them how they've gotten such awesome results, but instead want confirmation that it isn't "natural").

Given that, I've known kids who match this description pretty closely and definitely weren't on anything. Without knowing more, or caring to, I certainly wouldn't jump to any conclusions. Some people are just really strong.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:23 PM   #3
Stephen Yosypiw
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

I obviously don't know these guys, but I knew some guys when I was wrestling in HS who were 17ish yrs old and liftin loads. They werent on special diets or anything, workin out once in a while.

I think Thomas has a point, why not ask them how they got there?
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:27 PM   #4
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

Steroids aren't magic. You still have to do the work.

The corollary to that is that someone who can demonstrate the results must be doing the work, somehow, somewhere, even if you're not seeing them do it. If you're not seeing their full program -- including their recovery protocol -- you don't have enough information to speculate about any chemical help they might be taking.

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Old 03-25-2010, 11:21 PM   #5
Júlíus Magnússon
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

a) Why do you care?
b) Why not ask them?
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:44 AM   #6
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Júlíus Magnússon View Post
a) Why do you care?
b) Why not ask them?
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:33 AM   #7
joe shumsky
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

it's true, steroids aren't magic... but they DO allow for the growth of significant muscle mass in the ABSENCE of training. obviously, proper training (and, of course, nutrition) would only serve to magnify this effect, sometimes exponentially... especially if said person had great genetics to begin with. by the way, i have no beef with steroids, whatsoever. in fact, why i'm NOT taking them makes no sense, even to me.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:26 AM   #8
Stu Christensen
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

That's world class raw power for benching... at 16-17 years old. Seems fishy - not that they're not natural - that your story is true.

The Canadian IPF Junior bench press record for the 75kg class (165 pounds), which is wearing single ply bench shirt, is 127.5kg (281lbs). Hell, the 82.5kg (181lbs) record with a bench shirt is 167.5 (370#). This is natural, as IPF tests, but still...these are real powerlifters wearing gear and they're not doing 340 raw.

I think you might need to double check the weight they're doing. As for steroids, they help the body recover quicker and rebuild itself and depending on what you take, some are geared towards muscle building and some are geared towards strength gains. Nontheless, I doubt they are "on"...and I doubt they're really benching 340.

Maybe they are bouncing the weight off their sternums and the spotter is doing a 100lb upright row or something.....

Last edited by Stu Christensen; 03-26-2010 at 07:29 AM..
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:54 PM   #9
Dan Andrews
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

Clearly I would have had to ask them to gain all that information. I have talked to them about how they train, clearly someone so strong you would think is doing something right, and im willing to take all the advice in the world. What i outlined above is what they told me. I have seen them bench 340 with my own eyes a couple different times, they dont bounce the bar, and their hands arent extremely wide and the spotter isnt touching the bar, i have a pretty good eye for BS, they bench press the weight legitimately. They do their own programming that is fairly loose and vague, they dont have an exceptional knowledge of why they do what they do, its just whatever they feel like doing that day, whether it be leg pressing or pressing of some sort. They have already denied doing steroids to people, and Im not friendly enough with either of them that if they did they would admit it.

Last edited by Dan Andrews; 03-26-2010 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:02 PM   #10
Brian Degenaro
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Re: What is the likelihood of... ?

From what you're saying about them, to me it sounds like they're just busting their butts in the gym with good form. Programming can be a little overrated, it's a good guide but some of the strongest people I know "wing it" at the gym. They know they are going to be squatting or pressing or legs or upper, but it varies. The constant variable is they do it right and they bust their butts.
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