CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > In Sickness and In Health > Injuries
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Injuries Chronic & Acute

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-25-2014, 11:18 AM   #201
Russell Greene
CrossFit Staff Russell Greene is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz  CA
Posts: 264
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
While I am happy to support any campaign that highlights the risks of over-hydration it must be evidence based if it is to be taken seriously. Therefore, using this childs death to further this campaign before the cause of death has been established is simply indefensible, and I hope 'The Russells' have the decency to either edit their blog or remove that post until after the autopsy results are known.
Darryl,

Having spoken to both the Oliver family and Dr. Sandra Godek, the cause of death is clear. Consider that I have access to more information than what you've read in the press.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2014, 12:37 PM   #202
Tighe Crovetti
Member Tighe Crovetti is offline
 
Tighe Crovetti's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Collegeville  PA
Posts: 359
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

Reiterating my request to get a copy of the book, if there are any left. Thanks!
__________________
"Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2014, 03:03 PM   #203
Russell Greene
CrossFit Staff Russell Greene is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz  CA
Posts: 264
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

Another high school football player, Walker Wilbanks, passed away today from swelling of the brain after collapsing in practice. All signs point to EAHE.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/n...medium=twitter

(link is W/f safe)
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2014, 09:32 PM   #204
Christopher Morris
Member Christopher Morris is offline
 
Christopher Morris's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Highlands Ranch  CO
Posts: 1,293
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

Each death reported that could be overhydration EAHE feels like a sucker punch to the stomach. I hope those connected to the victims will search and learn more about overhydration. How many more will die before good information gets ahead of the problem? I would love to see Gatorade do an appropriate use campaign like Tylenol or smoking companies have done. Until then, keep expounding, Russels.

Quote:
I'm interested in going back to the ACSM/GSSI studies on heat exhaustion, etc. to see why they recommended excessive drinking in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Morris View Post
Dale,
Thank you for those last two posts. The timeline you present is insightful as to who knew what and when. That has clarified why CrossFit HQ wants to take this issue head-on so aggressively.
I've had questions about the origin of hydration science since this topic was brought up. In Waterlogged, pages 148-154 summarize the invention of Gatorade from an authoritative source. Though it is claimed Gatorade was born from research, the circumstances do not stand up to scientific scrutiny in the least. The book summarizes: "Dr. Cade's presumption is that the explanation for the success of a college football team can be reduced to a single variable, in this case to the presence of additional electrolytes in their sports drink. In reality, the factors determining success in professional team sports are so complex that they defy analysis." The rise of Gatorade feels less scientific than sports superstition, almost on the level of Mark Spitz's mustache. (wfs)
__________________
Chris
http://www.drchristophermorris.com/ wfs
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2014, 12:38 PM   #205
Coach
Founding Father Coach is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2003
 
Posts: 391
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

I found both of these articles important on the subject of EAHE:

The Clinical Journal of the American Society of Nephrologists, 2007, "Exercise Associated Hyponatremia", offers a compelling overview of EAHE reaching the damning conclusion that "In many respects, EAH can be viewed as an iatrogenic condition because of the prevailing view that exercising athletes should drink as much fluid as tolerable during a race."
http://cjasn.asnjournals.org/content/2/1/151.full


From 2004, The British Journal of Sports Medicine, "Weight Changes, Medical Complications, and Performance during an Iron Man Triathlon", demonstrating that "there is no increased risk of heat illness associated with high levels of dehydration, and that high levels of weight loss do not significantly influence performance."
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/6/718.full#ref-8
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 04:12 PM   #206
Russell Greene
CrossFit Staff Russell Greene is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz  CA
Posts: 264
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

Jacob Levin sent me this hyponatremia story from his time in the Army. One wonders how many other cases of fatal and near-fatal EAHE are yet to be recorded in the literature. A nephrologist told me yesterday that everyone knows at least one person who's suffered from EAHE. The full number of both incidents and fatalities may be many times what Noakes found in Waterlogged.

"In 2011, I was an IET soldier at Fort Benning, Georgia. On a twelve-mile road march, in order to prevent becoming a 'heat casualty,' I consumed roughly eight liters of water. I note that this is an estimate, based on how much water my Camelbak could store. I'd also been drinking water throughout the day to pre-hydrate for the march.

At roughly Mile 10, I became disoriented, confused, dizzy, and nauseated. Thanks to the excellence of my cadre, I was identified and set aside and an ambulance was called.

To make a long story short, when I was delivered to the ER, my core temperature was slightly elevated (101), but not enough to cause my symptoms. I was, however, severely overhydrated.

If the US Army is supposed to be issuing 'maximums' rather than 'minimums'" then my otherwise-excellent trainers failed me. We routinely were told to drain canteens and then turn them upside down to prove we'd drank it all ...

I almost died, and I know of other guys (again, anecdotal rather than hard-fact) who were hospitalized with almost identical symptoms."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 11:07 AM   #207
Brian Chontosh
CrossFit Staff Brian Chontosh is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Santa Cruz  CA
Posts: 9
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

I've been patiently waiting and just settling into passive monitoring of this process to ask for an accounting. Maybe I am just restless in the moment.

Maybe I am tired now as specifically Football Season is upon us; youth, collegiate, professional, and I'm not altogether satisfied any real action or change is taking place. My son and daughter (likely yours as well) have started lacrosse season and I see it. 'Hydrate Hydrate Hydrate.'

How many more people are going to die before the scare becomes realized real? Because it is real.

It's been since January 1st that I've refused all forms of Sports Drinks and specifically Gatorade. I've made it through the heat of the year and accomplished a few pretty lofty physical events; just fine I might add. I do my best to keep it out of the hands of my children and loved ones. I educate my 'people around me' the best I can as well.

We proffer proud chests and words over social media and leverage social pressures to get informed. But Beverage Powders and the 'Hydrate Mantra' exist no less than they did 8 months ago. Much worse - the common misconceptions and 'understanding' of hydration science is still being taught in our military and athletic communities.

If the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge can raise 110$ million (94 in the last <2 months) how can we not create at least a national petition or public boycott on products?

40,000+ views and 206 comments since Feb 19th. If Gatorade sales are up this quarter, we are failing.

I'm in. This is maybe a Call for Action before we become guilty of the reluctance to act and the 'powder keg kicking' that the ACSM Guidelines have done over the past decade and (no)change.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 12:47 PM   #208
Mike Doehla
Affiliate Mike Doehla is offline
 
Mike Doehla's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Newburgh  NY
Posts: 744
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

I may have missed something but are people really thinking Gatorade is killing kids. Or is there more to this. I know over hydration is a real thing but is there a difference if it's Gatorade or water?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 02:21 PM   #209
Chris Meldrum
Member Chris Meldrum is offline
 
Chris Meldrum's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Durham  NC
Posts: 5
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

Understand that I am late to this party...but I bounced over here from the Message Board discussion of this from 140907.

I would love a copy of the book if there are any still available. Thanks in advance!

on the list! ~Lynne
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 02:48 PM   #210
Jacob Levin
Member Jacob Levin is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Columbia  SC
Posts: 168
Re: Exercise Associated Hyponatremic Encephalopathy, Gatorade and the ACSM

Mike,

If I understand the issue correctly, it's not necessarily that over-use of Gatorade is more dangerous than overhydration in general. The issue is that Gatorade has, for a number of years, deliberately downplayed and outright lied about the risks of EAHE in order to sell their product.

I'm not an expert on the subject, so take my explanation with a grain of salt.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CHAMP/ACSM Guidelines for ECPs J. Thomas Boss Health and Medical Issues 0 05-04-2011 06:54 AM
ACSM Certification Bill Gibson Community 0 12-16-2010 10:21 AM
More Education: NSCA, ACSM, ISSA? David Hughes Starting 16 08-26-2009 06:41 AM
Anyone taken the ACSM - HFS certification test? Evan Hobbs Fitness 5 04-07-2009 06:45 PM
Some tips for equipment construction from a Home Depot associate Neal Winkler Equipment 8 12-27-2005 04:08 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.