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Old 02-17-2008, 01:34 PM   #1
Joe Shininger
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"Sticking" points in deadlift

I searched, but didn't find anything related to this topic...

My friend and I are working on upping our 1rm on deadlifts, but we both get stuck at roughly the same spot. We both struggle greatly to even get the bar off the floor, but once it clears about mid-shin we're fine. Is there a way we can improve this? Our coach has indicated that our form is fine (weight on heels, arch, good width on feet), so could it be that we need to "explode" more?
Any thoughts?

(If what I'm saying isn't clear, I can post a video)
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:43 PM   #2
Derek Maffett
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

I've heard something before about the body "shutting down" when dealing with something overly heavy. Pavel has talked about "feed-forward tension" as an answer to this (lifting light weights with a lot of tension to override the feed-back loop telling your body to shut down with the big weights). Might be worth looking into.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:46 PM   #3
Martin Schap
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

I wouldn't explode into a deadlift. Slow and steady wins the race in this drill. Starting strength -the ability to get the bar off the floor- is weak for a lot of folks. Some ideas would be to work squats and box squats, as there will be some carryover there, and do extended ROM deadlifts. You could either stand on a small platform (4 inches or less) or use smaller plates. Makes the math harder, but I think I recall in another post you said your max is 3-something? You should be able to fit a good training load on the bar using 25 or 35 pound iron plates.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:52 PM   #4
Brandon Oto
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

Most people have the hardest time getting the bar off the floor. That's a pretty normal dynamic for the lift.

You could do halting deadlifts if you particularly care.
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:07 PM   #5
Scott Mahn
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
I've heard something before about the body "shutting down" when dealing with something overly heavy. Pavel has talked about "feed-forward tension" as an answer to this (lifting light weights with a lot of tension to override the feed-back loop telling your body to shut down with the big weights). Might be worth looking into.
I believe Rip talks about this in starting strength. Something along the lines of the body wont lift what the grip can't handle. So a question to the original poster might be, are you using a hook grip to better your odds of being able to handle the weight in your hands.


Rip also includes power cleans in the SS program, if for no other reason than because he believes the explosive movement adds to the pull off the floor. I believe Westside methods utilize speed pulls similarly. I think the poor man's version is to do higher reps of fast deads at lighter weights, but I'm no authority.
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:10 PM   #6
Joe Shininger
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

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Originally Posted by Scott Mahn View Post
I believe Rip talks about this in starting strength. Something along the lines of the body wont lift what the grip can't handle. So a question to the original poster might be, are you using a hook grip to better your odds of being able to handle the weight in your hands.


Rip also includes power cleans in the SS program, if for no other reason than because he believes the explosive movement adds to the pull off the floor. I believe Westside methods utilize speed pulls similarly. I think the poor man's version is to do higher reps of fast deads at lighter weights, but I'm no authority.
My grip isn't really an issue, but I find your comment on the cleans interesting. In my (uneducated) opinon, that seems like it might help
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:35 PM   #7
Tom Brose
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

Even if the issue is grip, the hook grip is not the answer. Just for practice for O Lifts, I experimented using it up to about 365 for 3 reps, and it felt like my thumbs were going to rip off. Same lifts holding a mixed grip was pain free. I've never seen a powerlifter using the hook grip.

Power cleans, or any olympic variation, begin with a slower pull, and violently explode well after the bar has cleared the knees. They also involve significantly less weight than the lifter would DL.

Halting DLs, pulls w/ the bar lower (using smaller plates or a elevated stance)both could help.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:18 PM   #8
Scott Mahn
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

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Originally Posted by Tom Brose View Post
Even if the issue is grip, the hook grip is not the answer. Just for practice for O Lifts, I experimented using it up to about 365 for 3 reps, and it felt like my thumbs were going to rip off. Same lifts holding a mixed grip was pain free. I've never seen a powerlifter using the hook grip.
The O-lifters do use the hook grip for even their heaviest weights because it's more secure, and you don't want the barbell flying out of your hands. But you're right the power lifters don't. I finally looked up what I remembered Rip saying and it's in the context of the reverse grip or lifting straps and not the hook grip. For those interested it's on pages 107-108 of SSBBT

Quote:
Power cleans, or any olympic variation, begin with a slower pull, and violently explode well after the bar has cleared the knees. They also involve significantly less weight than the lifter would DL.

Halting DLs, pulls w/ the bar lower (using smaller plates or a elevated stance)both could help.

Here's is Rip's take on the matter. Not that he's always right, but I did say he had a take on the matter so here it is:

WFS http://www.************.net/forum/sh...light=westside

Interesting question. Cleans and other explosive training modalities work by increasing the efficiency with which motor units are recruited by the neuromuscular system, which thus increases the number of motor units available to generate force at the time of highest recruitment. If more high-threshold motor units are available, and are more easily recruited because their recruitment has been more frequently practiced, they can contribute to force production even at the slow speeds typical of max efforts in absolute strength-dependent movements like the deadlift. Strictly speaking, absolute strength has not increased, but the efficiency with which the contractile force of more motor units has been recruited has increased, and this can translate into a better deadlift performance with practice.

So the way I understand it is that cleans (and explosive Westside deadlifts) contribute to the deadlift by teaching the neuromuscular system to fire more motor units when a max effort is called for. Greater acceleration requires greater force production, no matter what the load: a 300 lb. deadlift moving slowly doesn't require as much force production as that same 300 lb. DL moving faster. This is what is meant by the term power. The faster an object is accelerated, the more force must be applied to that object to make it accelerate, no matter what it weighs, and that rapidly produced force is what we mean when we say Power.

In my opinion, cleans and snatches are the best way to practice power production, especially for the deadlift, because they cannot be done slowly. This is also why I don't use high-pulls, even though they are explosive. A high-pull -- a clean or snatch pull that is intentionally not racked -- is never pulled with the same force that even a missed clean or snatch is, because if you know as you pull it that you are not going to go under it at the rack position, you will not pull it with the power you will produce if you are actually going to rack the bar. Even experienced lifters do their high-pulls differently than their full lifts; this makes them worse to practice than deadlifts, because the motor pathways are more similar to the lifts than deadlifts, and thus more likely to interfere with the pulling pattern.
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:03 AM   #9
Brandon Oto
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

I hook at heavy deadlifts and hook + mixed at near-max weights. I promise you I couldn't lift as much without going to a mixed grip earlier, which I prefer not to do because it weirds out my posture a little.
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:50 AM   #10
Anthony Bainbridge
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Re: "Sticking" points in deadlift

Stand on a 4" box so that you have to get lower to the ground. All other deadlift rules apply, so you may have to work on flexibility before this is an option.
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