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Old 01-22-2010, 01:39 PM   #1
Jeremy Kauffman
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Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Hi! I'm one of the creators of WithFit (w/f/s) a free and easy to use fitness tracking site.

If you're an affiliate owner, please check out this short video explaining how it works (w/f/s). We think you'd find it super useful! WithFit makes scaling workouts, creating workouts, and other things that are difficult to do on other websites easy and intuitive. As avid CrossFitters, we've designed the site with a special emphasis for CrossFit.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Please do not ask if I went to voice training school, as if you've watched the video, you already know the answer.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:01 PM   #2
Brad Motzer
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Jeremy, that looks awesome. One idea I've had for workout tracking and even really community building is sending out an automated text or email to clients indicating whether the workout was positive and progressive for them based on the standard deviation work graph Coach has used at various seminars. Essentially, we could enter in every client's stats about center mass travel distance for various exercises and external load distances and have a program solve an algorithm when client's have reps, time, weight and any other important variable that would plot an amount of work for a specific workout time and indicate whether the current workout would fall above or below that standard deviation line on the graph.

Here's a link to a video of Kevin Slavin, co-founder of Area/Code, discussing pervasive technologies communicating with each other independent of human control. http://www.psfk.com/2009/04/video-ps...yday-life.html w/f/s

I don't know much about computer programming, but the idea seems feasible for an automated email or text message to be sent. For community development, maybe indicate who had the best time on a particular workout or most improved. One thing I've noticed is that the morning people typically don't comingle with the evening group because they never see each other. But sometimes they ask what the top athletes in the other groups have done and I'm hoping this gets some people to mix up their schedule and try to work out with someone else they feel may push them more.

Anyway, I guess the point of my post was to see if you would be inclined to add something to your program to create that kind of individual production graph. I didn't see anything like that in the tutorial. I want to be clear that I'm not talking about a comparison graph of two or more instances of the same workout, but, rather, one plotting total work done in how much time regardless of the metcon workout. And I have no idea how much it would cost to implement the Kevin Slavin inspired idea I have, I just wanted to share it.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:26 AM   #3
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Never mind, see the answer in the video.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:23 PM   #4
Alex Grintsvayg
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Hey everyone. I'm the other half of the WithFit team.

Brad, that's a great idea. Improving stats is one of the next things on our to do list and hopefully we'll be able to work this in as well.

Also, thanks for the video link. It was very interesting and really made me think.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:20 AM   #5
Brad Motzer
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Thanks Alex. That's the same impression I got from it when a friend of mine that works in marketing had me watch the video. Its good to see that you guys can develop a product with such detail and complexity so smoothly while doing it bicoastal. Keep us updated on how its coming.
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:56 AM   #6
Jeremy Kauffman
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Brad,

I agree that this is an interesting idea. I think the tricky part will be finding a formula and the necessary values for each exercise (e.g. how work is a lunge vs. a pull up vs. a push up). If you know anywhere this data is available, we'd love to know.

Also, Alex and I both live in Philadelphia. Despite my ability to make a website, I was incapable of determining how to change my location.
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:57 AM   #7
Jeremy Kauffman
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

I also wanted to mention that Alex and I just discussed improvements to stats and the program pages in a lot of detail this morning. We'd love for feedback on how these features can be improved. You can read more about what we're planning on our blog (w/f/s).
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:43 AM   #8
Brad Motzer
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Let me explain my understanding of Coach's position on work. Obviously, we're looking to increase general work capacity, defined as maximizing amount of work done in short periods of time. Although a 1000 rep thruster work, while it may be a very large amount of work done, wouldn't be an optimal workout because you'd spend too much time standing around looking at the bar not doing any work. That's why we have variable exercises so muscle groups can recover while we're still doing work. And the amount of work done isn't exercise dependent because in order to continuously increase it, we need to get better and a host of different exercises utilizing various muscle groups. So in my understanding, the amount of work done is what we're looking to maximize in every metcon workout. Then, we have a list of exercises like you guys have already put together. Each exercise has a vertical (and even a horizontal) distance traveled.

Here is where it gets tricky. We would have to set up standards for what would qualify as a complete range of motion, especially for beginner clients. Once they become proficient at that exercise, that is when we would measure the vertical distance traveled. For example, in a squat, until they can perform it correctly (i.e. hips below parallel to knees) we wouldn't consider them proficient in it. Once they get it, we would measure the distance traveled of their center mass (roughly belly button to pubic bone). Now we have a defined distance traveled for that exercise and their body weight would be the force. (I do realize their entire body weight isn't moving, but using their total scale weight is the easiest way to keep the variable constant). So now, in a workout with 20 squats, I can plug in their body weight as the force, multiply it by their fixed distance, and then by how many reps they performed. That would give me total work done, divide that by time and i have a power production for that workout that i can plot on a graph. I can do the same thing for chin to bar pull ups, chest to bar pull ups, push ups, dips, or any other exercise. When I get to the weightlifting exercises, not only would I have to measure the center mass travel distance, but also the external load travel distance. Once I have those numbers for a client, they really aren't going change unless they are young and still growing.

Finally, if I have all of these points on a graph with the y-axis as how much work done (in ftlbs/sec or some other variable) and time for the workout on the x-axis, I can then make a linear progression or standard deviation graph that will slope downward while never actually intersecting with the y- or x- axis. That line is going to be the client's work capacity as measured by their previous workouts. If the amount of work done in the current work would plot on that graph above the line, it means that for the amount of time they spent on the workout, they have produced more power than would have previously been their capacity and the line would change. Below the line, they underperformed and the line changes again. So there is almost instantaneous feedback on whether that was a good workout for them. Sorry if this sounds a little convoluted. I'm sure I'm rushing because I'm leaving to meet with a realtor about moving into a new box. I'll PM you my cell phone number if you want some more involved answers to those questions. I'm pretty swamped with work today until like 10pm, but if I get an hour free I'll call back.
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:35 PM   #9
Roger Harrell
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

Ah, but center of mass movement is not travel of any body part, even if that body part is center of mass at any given point of the movement. Determination requires breaking down what body parts move over what distances. Rotational movement (such as upper leg on the squat) can be broken down to center of mass movement. The equations are reasonable, but not simple. Sorry, geeking out...
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:00 AM   #10
Mauricio Leal
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Re: Versatile fitness tracking for affiliates / members

My .02.

I really like these ideas of actually creating real graphs of work capacity across broad time and modal domains. I come from a mechanical engineering background, so programming wise this doesn't seem like a very difficult thing to implement once movement and measurement standards are agreed upon. The mechanics of the movements can be a bit hairy -- all exercise metrics would not be equally valid or accurate, and generally any low rep high load stuff (with the fast lifts especially) would not produce any meaningful results for future comparison (barring video taping and timing and some more averaging). Some movements would be particularly hard to quantify.

I think the accuracy aspect should not be a huge concern though, initially at least, because it would be most useful as a comparison tool. So as long as we are precise (consistent) with our measurements and application of standards, then improvements can be meaningfully gauged. Is one lifting their entire BW in an air squat? No. In a push-up? 60-70% of BW depending on the technique. Does it matter? No! As long as the rules are applied consistently and reasonably capture the energy expenditure of a movement (especially as compared to other movements), then it will be very useful for comparison down the road.
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