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Old 04-21-2010, 06:14 PM   #1
Eric DeAngelis
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Interesting Problem...

I have posted some diet issues before and have always gotten help, and had posted a lot about PWO meals and recovery and energy. I have been eating fully unweighed/unmeasured paleo for a year or so now blackboxing a bunch of different ways of eating/IF/pre and PWO. Lately I have been feeling down and very lethargic at work and totally unmotivated before BJJ class or lifting. Naturally I suspect diet, so I weighed all of my food for a day and came to a very interesting discovery. It was on average about 1900 calories and this is a VERY typical day for me, as in I bet I donít fluctuate more than 200cal either way. The interesting part is I am really not that hungry during the day so I guess my calories have slowly been dropping for the past few months as I have not been hungry. Yesterday, the day I counted, was as follows:

6:30 AM- 4 omega-carefree eggs in coconut oil (340 cal)
4 oz of lean veil in little "sausages" (140 cal)
Red cabbage boiled down with small onion (120 cal)
1/2 cans lite coconut milk (150 cal)
TOTAL CAL: 750

Noon - 12 oz chicken (350 cal)
Hass avocado (250 cal)
Steamed Broccoli (100 cal)
Hot Green Tea (O Cal)
TOTAL CAL: 700

BJJ 5:30- 8:00, about hour rolling.

8:30 PM - Sweet Potato (150 cal)
Salmon (200 cal)
Apple sauce (50)
Whey (50 cal)
TOTAL CAL 450

DAILY TOTAL: 1900 cal. Est. Protein (from meat only) about 170

I am 25 y/o male, I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu 4 times a week and Wendlers 531 program 2 days a week, with some scattered yoga throughout the week. I am around 10% BF (I can see Abs). CFT is 825. It seems like I may have even gained some weight which is totally beyond me. I weigh 180 pounds but have crept up to about 186. What gives? Also, I hate eating before workouts so I never eat before my BJJ classes, I have tried a small dinner but I always feel like Iím going to vomit when we start rolling. So should I start trying to pound down 1000 or so cal breakfast and lunches? It seems like a lot considering I am eating till satiety now. Also I should say I assume the fatigue at work and rolling is from low calories but how did I manage to gain a few pounds? It makes no sense to me.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:28 PM   #2
Brian Bedell
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Re: Interesting Problem...

Water. Eat more.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:34 PM   #3
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Interesting Problem...

I have the same problem. I hit about 1900-2000 cals easily, but then...eh. So, I get another 300-400 from nuts and dried fruit, which I basically carry with me at all times. I just said today, I don't think I can gain on my current diet unless I add milk (and I am lactose intolerant anyway) or a good amount of starches. I mean, if I eat 10 oz of chicken or steak for lunch, I am full. I am not interested in force feeding myself to the point of being uncomfortable right now, but I will have to figure something out when I start a strength cycle.

How long have you been doing 5/3/1? I know some people who have seen some ridiculous gains on that program? Your weight gain could be muscle mass .

You could add some more coconut milk at lunch and dinner for extra calories and fat.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:41 PM   #4
Joe Bernard
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Re: Interesting Problem...

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Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen View Post
I have the same problem. I hit about 1900-2000 cals easily, but then...eh. So, I get another 300-400 from nuts and dried fruit, which I basically carry with me at all times. I just said today, I don't think I can gain on my current diet unless I add milk (and I am lactose intolerant anyway) or a good amount of starches. I mean, if I eat 10 oz of chicken or steak for lunch, I am full. I am not interested in force feeding myself to the point of being uncomfortable right now, but I will have to figure something out when I start a strength cycle.

How long have you been doing 5/3/1? I know some people who have seen some ridiculous gains on that program? Your weight gain could be muscle mass .

You could add some more coconut milk at lunch and dinner for extra calories and fat.
It's actually easier to force feed yourself to the point of being uncomfortable while doing SS. I found that I could put down around 3,500 calories and even though I would feel stuffed, I could still workout fine and not be bothered by my stomach. But doing WODs and gymnastic work like you are doing and trying to eat more is where I can see a problem. I would not want to be inverted after eating a huge meal 2-3 hours ago.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:54 PM   #5
Eric DeAngelis
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Re: Interesting Problem...

Toward the end of 1st month of Wendlers. I only get 2 days a week of it through because of my Jits. So I follow Squat/Bench one day and Press/DL the other with 4 bw sup lifts each workout. Its good for me because I tryed to SS and I was simply too sore to roll. Rolling for an hour stuffed with food and sore from SS just made me want to quit both. So this will let me get to my 2x BW DL in a few short months =)

Yeah its interesting, I never thought I would have a problem eating more; but like Tam said, if I eat almost a pound of meat and some fat Im full for hours and I hate forcefeeding. I drink almost a gallon of water a day as well currently. Maybe I will just start drinking coco milk by the can

I should say, I dont really want to gain any bodyfat so I dont wanna be eating too much either.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:25 PM   #6
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Interesting Problem...

When was the last time you took a few days off? Lack of appetite is one of the indicators of overtraining.

1900 calories is less than I eat, and you outweigh me by more than 50 pounds. With your activity level, there is no chance that's adequate. If it were me, I'd add a light snack before BJJ, and eat more at the evening meal.

You might also want to tweak your macronutrient ratios. In your position, I would want more carbs than that. In my experience, aikido is pretty glycogen-depleting, and I assume BJJ is as well.

Gaining weight probably means you're forcing your body to build muscle, which is more dense than the fat it's burning off to make up the calorie deficit you've created. It could also mean that the day you logged was a low day, and your normal intake is actually higher.

Katherine
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:34 AM   #7
Eric DeAngelis
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Re: Interesting Problem...

Yeah BJJ is definitly glycogenic, especially when we start standing with Judo throws into grappling. In honest the low carb came from a desire to drop the last few pounds to get into single digit body fat numbers, which I did, and I have not added any back since. I am apprehensive of gaining the body fat from all the fructose that comes with the sugar....maybe it is something I need to add for a month and see what happens.

I can try a snack, but Im telling you having a purple belt stack you as he passes guard will make you regret having eaten in the past few hours!
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Old 04-22-2010, 05:02 AM   #8
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Interesting Problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bernard View Post
It's actually easier to force feed yourself to the point of being uncomfortable while doing SS. I found that I could put down around 3,500 calories and even though I would feel stuffed, I could still workout fine and not be bothered by my stomach. But doing WODs and gymnastic work like you are doing and trying to eat more is where I can see a problem. I would not want to be inverted after eating a huge meal 2-3 hours ago.
Haha, good to know. Yeah, I was upside down for almost an hour yesterday. Not fun after a big meal for sure. Milk would be an easy option for me, but I will either have to try the lactase or see if raw milk is better. Because my week long experiment with whole milk only proved that I am drastically lactose intolerant. But, now that I am doing Regionals, I have another month before I have to worry about it.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:07 AM   #9
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Interesting Problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric DeAngelis View Post
Yeah BJJ is definitly glycogenic, especially when we start standing with Judo throws into grappling. In honest the low carb came from a desire to drop the last few pounds to get into single digit body fat numbers, which I did, and I have not added any back since. I am apprehensive of gaining the body fat from all the fructose that comes with the sugar....maybe it is something I need to add for a month and see what happens.
I'm not nearly as carb-phobic as some people here. My feeling is that carbs are a perfectly reasonable way of meeting your calorie requirements. I don't view a bowl of rice or a plate of pasta as inherently any worse than getting the equivalent number of calories from meat or fat.

(Preparing to run from pitchfork-wielding mob... )

Katherine
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:53 AM   #10
Nic Kirkland
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Re: Interesting Problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I don't view a bowl of rice or a plate of pasta as inherently any worse than getting the equivalent number of calories from meat or fat.
I suppose the fact that carbs elicit a totally different hormonal response and play a different function in our body from protein and fat doesn't mean anything to you?

Try a diet of all grains- just pasta, bread, and the like. Even with enriched grain products, you'll get micronutritient deficits left and right, become hyperinsulemic and a type II diabetic in record time. Metabolic syndrome and obesity are right down the road.

Do the same thing with meat (a source of protein and fat) and you will actually be alright, assuming you have some decent sources of meat (not just the grain-fed ground beef from your grocery), but you're hunting, say seal, fish, and the occasional game meat (rabbit, elk, caribou, etc...) and consuming more than just the muscle meat (i.e. the organs, marrow, etc...). This is the traditional diet of the Inuit. Until introduction to Western society in the 20th century, they very rarely ate vegetables, and certainly didn't have any agriculture to speak of (no grains or sugars) and were perfectly healthy. Of course this all changed within a short period after exposure to the refined carbohydrates introduced by European and American explorers/traders.

Now you may be forming some hypothesis that the Inuit were somehow genetically adapted to such a diet. Not an unreasonable conclusion. However, experience proved otherwise when those same Europeans and Americans spent extended periods among the Inuit, far from civilization and all it's culinary luxuries. After an initial period of adaptation they also subsisted just fine on the Inuit diet of meat and little else. These experiences also spurred trials conducted in metabolic wards on carnivore diets which yielded similar results. The patients didn't get scurvy or constipation or have kidney failure or any of those other things that authorities will tell you should happen on such a diet. Those problems associated with a high-fat, high-protein diet are only manifested in diets which also feature refined carbohydrates.

Not to speak of the fact that, yeah, those refined carbohydrates don't do a whole heck of a lot for you nutritionally. They provide way more carbohydrate than anyone who has not just finished a marathon needs to function, they can't be converted to amino acids for the construction and repair of the muscles. They just clog up your bloodstream with toxic glucose. Yeah I said it. When it's just floating in your bloodstream, glucose is toxic. That's why the body produces insulin to get it out of there. Otherwise your body would just be content to let it float around until it needed to be used by the muscles during exercise.
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Last edited by Nic Kirkland; 04-22-2010 at 10:00 AM..
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