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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 06-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #11
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
In a year you should be able to move all of those by 100+ lbs. If not, you are doing something wrong.
I agree, except maybe for the shoulder press (225lb+ shoulder press in a year...mmm, that'd be nice though). I did a cycle from Dave Tate's bench manual for 9 weeks (this was more than a year ago), bringing up my 1RM from 215 to 245lb without a change in BW. And I am not even an expert in this whole assistance exercise stuff, so I am sure 100lb on your bench in a year can be done if you know what you are doing and are consistent about it.

That experience changed my view about linear progression, which I no longer think to be the optimal way to go when things start stalling. I am much more for auto-regulation or a (max effort/dynamic effort) split now.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:47 AM   #12
Dana Rice
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Dell Whitley View Post
You'd put 100+ lbs on most of your lifts in six months or less if you're a novice on a linear progression. Save the Westside stuff for whenever you get to a point that you can't keep adding weight to the bar every time you walk in the gym.
I would agree here. For Novices, linear progression would obviously be a much quicker and more efficient way to go. After 3-6 months, then move on to an intermediate program, like Westside, TM, or 5/3/1

Also, isn't Westside best suited for people lifting in gear?
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:51 AM   #13
Michael Dowling
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

The problem with LP in the military is you run, you run A LOT! Something like 531 may be better for someone in the military as the running won't kill your program like it would a basic linear progression program.

When I was in the Marines we probably ran 20 miles a week as well as other conditioning, which will kill a program like Starting Strength.

With the OP's numbers he could hop on 531 without a problem.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:54 AM   #14
Dana Rice
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
That experience changed my view about linear progression, which I no longer think to be the optimal way to go when things start stalling. I am much more for auto-regulation or a (max effort/dynamic effort) split now.
Definetly not. Once you start stalling, and can no longer add weight to the bar every workout, you are no longer a novice, and it it time to move on from something beyond Linear Progression. TM is an intermediate program and utilizes Volume Days and Intensity Days, similar to the split you mentioned above.

Personally - I am still a fan of 5/3/1 because 1) It seems to work very well for me and my body responds to it 2) it allows me to work on heavy 5's, triples and singles and 3) It allows for the incorporation of conditioning - if that is something you want to do.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:58 AM   #15
Dana Rice
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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Originally Posted by Michael Dowling View Post
The problem with LP in the military is you run, you run A LOT! Something like 531 may be better for someone in the military as the running won't kill your program like it would a basic linear progression program.

When I was in the Marines we probably ran 20 miles a week as well as other conditioning, which will kill a program like Starting Strength.
This is a very good point, and one that I missed. If you are going to be doing alot of conditioning, LP will not work. You wont be able to add the necessary weight, and you wont be able to recover squatting and adding weight to the bar multiple times/week.

I would agree with Michael, 5/3/1 would be a good option for a pure strength program under these conditions. The gains will be slower, but the workload will be managable.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:28 AM   #16
Chris Mason
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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I like Jim wendlers theory of slow consistent gains over a lifetime. Adding 100+ pounds to all your lifts in a year is not realistic or sustainable. Keep in mind that most if the lifters at westside barbell are overfat, and on anabolic steroids (as stated by Louie simmons on the documentary "bigger, faster, stronger").
Bob, at least know what you are talking about if you are going to comment...
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:32 AM   #17
Michael R. Miller
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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Originally Posted by Bob Herald View Post
I like Jim wendlers theory of slow consistent gains over a lifetime. Adding 100+ pounds to all your lifts in a year is not realistic or sustainable. Keep in mind that most if the lifters at westside barbell are overfat, and on anabolic steroids (as stated by Louie simmons on the documentary "bigger, faster, stronger").
Based on that logic then all the CrossFitters that have PR'ed via Westiside are either juiced or overfat as well. Unless you have something else I don't see how this is a valid point that westside is not sustainable.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:35 AM   #18
Chris Mason
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Dell Whitley View Post
You'd put 100+ lbs on most of your lifts in six months or less if you're a novice on a linear progression. Save the Westside stuff for whenever you get to a point that you can't keep adding weight to the bar every time you walk in the gym.
Why? I'm curious why taking the "easy" albeit possibly inferior route is recommended?
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:39 AM   #19
Dana Rice
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

I wouldn't say easy. True 5x5's and 3x5's can get pretty damn tough when you are grinding out reps every workout. I think he means, quickest and most efficient. But I think Michael's point earlier is valid. If he is going to be running 10-20 miles/week, the point is moot - LP will not work.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:39 AM   #20
Chris Mason
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Re: Westside Strength Gains?

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hey sorry to insert another question, and this is i think my second post so please go easy on me ..

i'v read just about all i can get my hands on from Louie and watched all the videos and kinda mocked up my own version of what i could make from it, and it's obviosley an amazing way to train (also watched chris bell's doco so i know what the previous poster was talkin bout)..

Just wondering when u say following Westside to a T, what does ur program look like?.. could u post a link or just a simple cut a paste?..

Cheers
I have an overview I included in an article which I wrote which I will have up on my other site in a few days. I will post a link at that time.
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