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Old 04-11-2012, 05:27 AM   #31
Joey Shishineh
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Jason Wallis View Post
Spend the money on quality food instead. There is no supplement in the world that will give you more bang for your buck than a good diet.
x1000. new thread title, 'Prioritizing Nutrition?' which should still include fish oils as a 'supplement'.

spend your extra cash on good foods as stated above. Figure out your body and its needs. Once you reach your initial goals, revisit this thread...but for what its worth, creatine
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:59 AM   #32
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Luke Norian View Post
Slowly reduce calories (being careful to never go too low) and do cardio!
If his protein is high (1.5g/LBM or so), they don't have to be reduced all that slowly. Most of his losses will be from fat anyways, ie. a very favorable p-ratio.

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Originally Posted by Frances Ballesteros View Post
I was reading an article a couple of days ago, I think it was by Lyle, and he said that when dieting, it is best to lift heavy to prevent loss of lean muscle mass.

Opinions?
I think it makes sense. Some people try to do a hypertrophy program on a caloric deficit, I don't see how all that volume can do anything but cause muscle loss. High intensity, low volume makes a lot more sense to me.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:48 AM   #33
Thom Wendelboe
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

1) Fish Oil
2) BCAA supplement

The fish oil is common sense. Unless your food is all ethically sourced (read: grass fed beef, etc.) it is really worth taking. Liquid form is cheap.

The BCAA supplement may decrease muscle loss while maintaining a caloric deficit. This can be made unnecessary with proper meal timing; however, you aren't always able to eat whole foods immediately after exercise. I prefer taking some BCAA's and waiting until I can eat whole foods instead of downing some sort of meal replacement shake. They are also useful if you train in a fasted state.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #34
Jeff Burns
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

First of all, let me just say a huge thank you for everyone who took the time to reply. I certainly wasn't expecting this to go into 4 pages. I know a few were kind of off topic, but it says a lot about this community that you're willing to answer my dumb questions.

Since I don't know of a better way to reply, I'm just going to do it seperately and quote people where appropriate.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:37 AM   #35
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
Fish oil and a generic multivitamin. Lots of protein from whole foods. Just because it's cheap, doesn't mean you should take it. Focus on important things, the time for creatine will come soon enough.
This seems to be the consensus, even after the debate about the benefits of creatine. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Joey Shishineh View Post
fish oils are absolutely necessary for recovery, inflammation, etc.
How should fish oil be taken during the day? I have liquid stuff and have read elsewhere to take about 1Tbsp worth. Right now I do it all at once w/ breakfast. Should I spread that out to 2 or 3 servings a day? Does it matter?

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Originally Posted by Jason Wallis View Post
Spend the money on quality food instead. There is no supplement in the world that will give you more bang for your buck than a good diet.
I like this more than the idea of supplements. Thanks for the input.

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Especially in the OP's case. IMO, someone who is worrying about which supplements to "prioritize" while untrained and overweight is missing the forest for the trees.

Katherine
I can definitely understand what you mean. It's easy though to get caught up in the atmosphere that envelops much of the fitness world (i.e. you need expensive suppliments to achieve your goals). Thanks for the dose of realism.


Someone else in this thread emphasized cardio. Question about that. Right now I'm going to the box 3 days a week, MWF until my body acclimates a little more to working out with frequency... I've read elsewhere that rest days should be true rest days. Opinions on that? Should I be running on my off days? Jumping rope? Long walks? Just trying to make sure I'm not over-doing it here in the beginning. I don't want to get burnt out or worse, injured. Thanks again for all the input!
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:02 PM   #36
Joey Shishineh
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Burns View Post
This seems to be the consensus, even after the debate about the benefits of creatine. Thanks!



How should fish oil be taken during the day? I have liquid stuff and have read elsewhere to take about 1Tbsp worth. Right now I do it all at once w/ breakfast. Should I spread that out to 2 or 3 servings a day? Does it matter?
I've had it explained like this: "when would you eat a piece of fish."

i.e. it doesn't really matter when you take it or whether you split it up. I also take mine with breakfast in a single serving. I do think you should take it with food though. The EPA/DHA content and quality of fish oil are the two most important factors.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:26 PM   #37
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Burns View Post
Someone else in this thread emphasized cardio. Question about that. Right now I'm going to the box 3 days a week, MWF until my body acclimates a little more to working out with frequency... I've read elsewhere that rest days should be true rest days. Opinions on that? Should I be running on my off days? Jumping rope? Long walks? Just trying to make sure I'm not over-doing it here in the beginning. I don't want to get burnt out or worse, injured. Thanks again for all the input!
I consider cardio on three levels:

1.) Health
2.) Conditioning
3.) Caloric Expenditure

1 and 2 you are getting from going to the box, so really it's all about 3. For you, there is no big difference between adding low intensity cardio and cutting calories. The two will have pretty much the exact same effect. So frankly, it's up to you. Just realize, that you won't burn a ton of calories doing the low intensity cardio, and that it's gonna be much easier to just cut calories. You can either do a 1 hour walk and burn 600 calories, or you can just cut out two bagels from your diet.

If you create a severe caloric deficit (yes, calories do matter), you need to up the protein to avoid muscle loss. Since most whole foods are 20-25% BCAA, this is sorta along the lines of what Thom said. Depending on how much you cut carbs/calories, you might need to go to 1, 1.5 or in extreme cases, even 2g/lb of LBM (PSMF).
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:13 PM   #38
Jeff Burns
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
I consider cardio on three levels:

1.) Health
2.) Conditioning
3.) Caloric Expenditure

1 and 2 you are getting from going to the box, so really it's all about 3. For you, there is no big difference between adding low intensity cardio and cutting calories. The two will have pretty much the exact same effect. So frankly, it's up to you. Just realize, that you won't burn a ton of calories doing the low intensity cardio, and that it's gonna be much easier to just cut calories. You can either do a 1 hour walk and burn 600 calories, or you can just cut out two bagels from your diet.

If you create a severe caloric deficit (yes, calories do matter), you need to up the protein to avoid muscle loss. Since most whole foods are 20-25% BCAA, this is sorta along the lines of what Thom said. Depending on how much you cut carbs/calories, you might need to go to 1, 1.5 or in extreme cases, even 2g/lb of LBM (PSMF).
Thanks a lot. I've read before that cutting calories too much causes your body to metabolize muscle tissue. Where could I find out how much my daily intake needs to be? I've started trying to track what I eat, but it's not always easy to get it right. Any suggestions for a site that would keep that infomation cataloged easily?
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:30 PM   #39
Joey Shishineh
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Burns View Post
Thanks a lot. I've read before that cutting calories too much causes your body to metabolize muscle tissue. Where could I find out how much my daily intake needs to be? I've started trying to track what I eat, but it's not always easy to get it right. Any suggestions for a site that would keep that infomation cataloged easily?
Although creating the caloric deficit (quantity) is important if you want to lose fat...don't forget there is a quality piece to that puzzle that will expedite the process. By quality, I mean (NO processed carbohydrates, AVOID added sugars), eat veggies like its your job and get good meat.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:52 PM   #40
Luke Norian
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Re: Prioritizing Supplements?

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Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
If his protein is high (1.5g/LBM or so), they don't have to be reduced all that slowly. Most of his losses will be from fat anyways, ie. a very favorable p-ratio.



I think it makes sense. Some people try to do a hypertrophy program on a caloric deficit, I don't see how all that volume can do anything but cause muscle loss. High intensity, low volume makes a lot more sense to me.
Hmm, I was referring more to the realistic reasoning behind it (as opposed to the scientific one). Cutting too many calories too fast will cause you to be VERY hungry and that'll cause the large majority of people to crash because, afterall, it's how life works - when you're extremely hungry you're gonna eat and you're gonna do it as fast as possible not caring much for what it is.
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