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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-04-2012, 10:51 AM   #21
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

*shrug* Your body, your choice.

But these boards are filled with posts from people who dove right into a 3-1 schedule and then came here because they were too sore to move. Or read some of the stories on the injury board sometime.

It's a lot easier to do less than you can and ramp up than it is to recover after you did more than you should.

Katherine
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:55 AM   #22
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Thom Wendelboe View Post
Genetics is an excuse for people who lack dedication. Did you even read over any of the site? Lewis himself has stated he feels he has poor genetics. Genetics plays a role, but more of a roll in recovery strategies. Specifically macro-nutrients, protein types, and so forth. If anything, the greatest genetic gift an athlete can have is a natural stubbornness. It isn't like there are ubermensch running around out there crushing weight. As for skilled coach - isn't that what affiliates exist for?

So advanced athletes lifting more weigh at a higher intensity can do it regularly, but the first-timer or intermediate who needs to still reinforce motor patterns should hold off on doing so? Seems illogical to me.

Jamie Lewis isn't an olympic athlete. Furthermore, Rich Froning (and many games competitors) train multiple hours a day 4 or 5 days a week. Froning himself says he doesn't really believe in periodization. And he is a smart guy who works with athletes.

I believe the OP was asking why people deload and don't just lift less during a weekly cycle. I responded that some people actually like being in the gym everyday. I then provided an example of someone who has been successful doing so. I chose to go outside the crossfit world because I believe it is important to have a plethora of perspectives. Someone active in the crossfit world who trains nearly everyday would be Anthony Bainbridge (and also his wife Jodi) - both of whom are very successful athletes.


What's "good for the average athlete" is whatever they find enjoyment with. I am the prototypical average athlete, but I enjoy working out five days a week. I find I cannot function in "the normal world" as well when I don't hit the weights in the morning.
A few months ago, Jamie Lewis talked about bottoming out on his workouts and needing to take days off. I guess you can do it that way. Seems a lot riskier though. For me it's better to have a set rest planned into my schedule.

Just because he says he has bad genetics doesn't make it so. Based on his workload and appearance he seems to have at least adequate genetics. I couldn't sustain that volume nearly as long.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:22 PM   #23
Donald Lee
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Joey Shishineh View Post
Does this mean that beginners do not need a deload week?
Nobody needs planned deloads or deload weeks. It all depends on how you program.

Anyways, manipulating fatigue is only one of many factors in getting fitter. The programming in "Practical Programming" is mostly based on manipulating fatigue, but there are other styles of programming that manage fatigue and focus on training motor qualities.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:35 PM   #24
Steven Low
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Genetics is an excuse for people who lack dedication.
I guess all of those 99.99% of athletes in Russia, China, Bulgaria, and former USSR countries who burned out in Oly lifting, gymnastics, etc. programs were lacking dedication........ when they had a chance at a better life for themselves and their familes if they had success at national and world level.

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Old 04-04-2012, 01:10 PM   #25
Thom Wendelboe
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
I guess all of those 99.99% of athletes in Russia, China, Bulgaria, and former USSR countries who burned out in Oly lifting, gymnastics, etc. programs were lacking dedication........ when they had a chance at a better life for themselves and their familes if they had success at national and world level.

Or, you know, you could realize I was making a blanket statement. Most people say they have "bad genetics" when they haven't come close to reaching their genetic potential. To me, bad genetics in training is the same as the bad genetics for diet. Why are people so quick to dismiss one these days and not the other? Finding a training regime is just like finding diet that works with your "genetics." Some people might excel on 3 workouts a week, some people might do well on 12. Training volume varies much like macro-nutrient levels.

I never said you should train all day everyday, I just said if you want to do it, don't use genetics as an excuse to avoid trying it.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #26
Thom Wendelboe
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
A few months ago, Jamie Lewis talked about bottoming out on his workouts and needing to take days off. I guess you can do it that way. Seems a lot riskier though. For me it's better to have a set rest planned into my schedule.

Just because he says he has bad genetics doesn't make it so. Based on his workload and appearance he seems to have at least adequate genetics. I couldn't sustain that volume nearly as long.
Have you tried? I am not advocating for doing it, but examples exist where people have succeed. If someone wants to break down the science behind good genetics and bad genetics I would be all ears; however, it appears that much of it is constantly changing guesswork. Instead of relying on laboratory dogma, it might be worth while to just try it out.

He also eats A LOT of food. And, from the sounds of it, his life pretty much revolves around training. For a lot of people, this isn't possible. Kids, family, work, and so forth prevent optimal recovery.

I think lifestyle is more limiting than genetics, yet the genetic argument gets bandied about whenever training volume is brought up.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #27
Thom Wendelboe
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
*shrug* Your body, your choice.

But these boards are filled with posts from people who dove right into a 3-1 schedule and then came here because they were too sore to move. Or read some of the stories on the injury board sometime.

It's a lot easier to do less than you can and ramp up than it is to recover after you did more than you should.

Katherine
Were these people eating enough? Sleeping enough? Were there lives free of all other stresses and distractions? Moving properly during their workouts? Warming up? Taking steps for active and non-active recovery? Or were some of these things hindered by their life "real life." Furthermore, were they following non-foolish programming?

Here are some things that will hinder someone's ability to train at a high volume before "genetics" - at least as genetics have been traditionally defined when related to training volume.

Diet
Sleep
Lifestyle choices
Family
Job
Unrelated stress
Etc.

Of course, people may be genetically predisposed to handling stress better, or digesting less-than-optimal food. But that is not how I see "genetics" being defined in this conversation.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:28 PM   #28
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Thom Wendelboe View Post
Have you tried? I am not advocating for doing it, but examples exist where people have succeed. If someone wants to break down the science behind good genetics and bad genetics I would be all ears; however, it appears that much of it is constantly changing guesswork. Instead of relying on laboratory dogma, it might be worth while to just try it out.

He also eats A LOT of food. And, from the sounds of it, his life pretty much revolves around training. For a lot of people, this isn't possible. Kids, family, work, and so forth prevent optimal recovery.

I think lifestyle is more limiting than genetics, yet the genetic argument gets bandied about whenever training volume is brought up.
No laboratory dogma here. I have tried, I couldn't do it. Thus the reason I stated "I couldn't do it." I won't put it ALL on genetics, I also work full time and have typical life stress. But based on how it was when my life was set up around working out, I couldn't do it.
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:33 PM   #29
Steven Low
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Thom Wendelboe View Post
Or, you know, you could realize I was making a blanket statement. Most people say they have "bad genetics" when they haven't come close to reaching their genetic potential. To me, bad genetics in training is the same as the bad genetics for diet. Why are people so quick to dismiss one these days and not the other? Finding a training regime is just like finding diet that works with your "genetics." Some people might excel on 3 workouts a week, some people might do well on 12. Training volume varies much like macro-nutrient levels.

I never said you should train all day everyday, I just said if you want to do it, don't use genetics as an excuse to avoid trying it.
People are always going to give excuses for what they don't want to and want to do.

Generally speaking though, if you have to ask about this you aren't advanced enough in your training that you need to do it which is why the answer is almost always don't do it.

Those who devote themselves to learning about training theory and how to apply it will be much better off when they go to attempt these sorts of things. 99% of the population doesn't need to do it though, because they will never need to as they aren't competing at an elite level.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:10 PM   #30
Chris Mason
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Re: Why deloading instead of adjusting frequency?

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
I guess all of those 99.99% of athletes in Russia, China, Bulgaria, and former USSR countries who burned out in Oly lifting, gymnastics, etc. programs were lacking dedication........ when they had a chance at a better life for themselves and their familes if they had success at national and world level.

Lol, great point. That is one concern I have with some of the culture I see with CFers. The more is better philosophy and you are only a "badass" if you kill yourself.
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