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Old 06-01-2015, 01:51 PM   #121
Chris Guillermo
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
So did Lance, his training was above all, turned out he is a lying scumbag.

Maybe just maybe, folks on PEDs can outwork everyone, because od PEDs. And those who are clean have no chances to train that much?
Not sure why you use Armstrong as an example. Every top cyclist at the time was on PED's and that is pretty well documented. So yes he was a lying scumbag but so were the guys he was competing against.

Basically you can't do what Froning does so you just automatically assume he is on PED's. Pure definition of hater right there. If you look at all of those day in the life of Fronings that are out there, it isn't all that outrageous for someone who gets paid to workout like that. There are 1000's of people that train similarly, so I guess they are all on PED's as well.
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:47 PM   #122
Zac Metz
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

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Originally Posted by Chris Guillermo View Post
Not sure why you use Armstrong as an example. Every top cyclist at the time was on PED's and that is pretty well documented. So yes he was a lying scumbag but so were the guys he was competing against.

Basically you can't do what Froning does so you just automatically assume he is on PED's. Pure definition of hater right there. If you look at all of those day in the life of Fronings that are out there, it isn't all that outrageous for someone who gets paid to workout like that. There are 1000's of people that train similarly, so I guess they are all on PED's as well.
Not sure if the person you quoted was being a hater, I think he was just pointing out the fact that PEDs allow athletes to train much harder and recover more quickly. You saying 1000s of athletes train like Froning though.. is way off. I doubt there are 5 athletes that train like Froning. He won the Games 4 times in a row specifically because no one trained like him and couldnt keep up with him.

Its the same thing with Lance Armstrong, when he was winning and there was no scandal he was praised so highly, but when everything broke it came out that all the top athletes were using PEDs all the sudden it wasn't his great work ethic and everything else. I believe that is where the comparison came from (in the event Froning was using PEDs).

I personally haven't and will not accuse any one person of using PEDs, but I have said before and will re-state, I full expect to find out at some point that a large chunk of "upper level" CF athletes are/were using PEDs. There always will be those genetic beasts who just seem like it, but its highly likely that many athletes will do whatever they can to get to the top, just like every other sport.
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Old 06-01-2015, 05:16 PM   #123
Steven Wingo
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

There is a difference between cycling and CrossFit. Cyclists train in a way which is known to deplete beneficial hormone levels--chronic cardio (and in a serious way with 6+ hour days on the bike day in and day out for the highest level cyclists). Chronic cardio causes your testosterone and HgH levels to decline.

In CrossFit, one of Greg Glassman's fundamental theories--backed by good evidence--is that you train in a way designed to naturally increase levels of testosterone and HgH. The short duration, high intensity workouts (sometimes with heavy loads or involving sprints or other all out efforts) are favored specifically because they promote a natural and desirable neuroendocrine response.

Why do we squat heavy? One reason is it is so great in eliciting that desirable neuroendocrine response.

Having been a former runner and then cyclist, now turned CrossFit disciple, I'm a firm believer that CrossFit methodology is superior and just flat out works. It is a superior way to train. That doesn't mean there are no athletes at Regionals and the Games using PEDs, which would seem hard to believe given what we see in other sports, but maybe, just maybe, the CrossFit way of training is allowing athletes to reach higher levels of gains because it in fact works.
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Old 06-01-2015, 07:33 PM   #124
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

I'm not sure how you can say Crossfit allows people to reach higher levels gains. I don't even know what that means. Better strength gains? Nope that still goes to powerlifters. Better size gains? Nope still goes to bodybuilders. Better sprint gains? Nah sprinters still have that. Endurance gains? Endurance athletes will rule that one too.

That isn't say that the methodology is inferior, it is not specific enough to ever be superior to those who are specialists. The whole point being, saying Crossfit allows you to reach higher levels of gains is completely lacking context. Not to mention, all Crossfit athletes train under some sort of Crossfit methodology so if we have two high level Crossfitters with equal genetics and work ethic and one uses PEDs then that one will no doubt be above and beyond better than their counterpart rendering the argument of its just Crossfits superior training methodology pointless.
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Old 06-01-2015, 09:21 PM   #125
Richard Colon
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

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Originally Posted by Steven Wingo View Post
Having been a former runner and then cyclist, now turned CrossFit disciple, I'm a firm believer that CrossFit methodology is superior and just flat out works. It is a superior way to train if you're goal is to be better at Crossfit. Otherwise, Crossfit will never produce what Dan Green produces. It will never create a Malanichev, Konstantinov, Ilyin, Dimas, Bolt, Chrissie Wellington, Yohan Blake, Michael Phelps, David Rudisha and I could go on and on... That doesn't mean there are no athletes at Regionals and the Games using PEDs, which would seem hard to believe given what we see in other sports, but maybe, just maybe, the CrossFit way of training is allowing athletes to reach higher levels of gains because it in fact works.
Just wanted to fix that for you.
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Old 06-02-2015, 03:58 AM   #126
Steven Wingo
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

What is CrossFit? It is a core strength and conditioning program. It wasn't meant to replace sport specific training.

While it doesn't replace sport specific training, such as for a cyclist or powerlifter or soccer player or football player or swimmer or rower and so on, when used for base strength and conditioning it will lead to overall higher levels of fitness and help you become better in your sport. One reason is the neuroendocrine response elicited.

Have you followed the way track athletes and swimmers and football players and other top athletes are now training? They are increasingly using CrossFit methodology.
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Old 06-02-2015, 04:03 AM   #127
Steven Wingo
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

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Originally Posted by Richard Colon View Post
Just wanted to fix that for you.
I would add this statement:

[quote]if you're goal is to be better at Crossfit. Otherwise, Crossfit will never produce what Dan Green produces. It will never create a Malanichev, Konstantinov, Ilyin, Dimas, Bolt, Chrissie Wellington, Yohan Blake, Michael Phelps, David Rudisha and I could go on and on...however, if you are any of these folks then using CrossFit methodology as your cross-training/base strength and conditioning program will allow you to reach levels you would not otherwise obtain without incorporating a quality cross-training program into your training regimen/QUOTE]
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:53 AM   #128
Struan Potter
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

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Originally Posted by Steven Wingo View Post
Have you followed the way track athletes and swimmers and football players and other top athletes are now training? They are increasingly using CrossFit methodology.
Blocks of GPP training have been used for decades long before CrossFit Santa Cruz opened.
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:54 AM   #129
Struan Potter
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

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Originally Posted by Steven Wingo View Post
I would add this statement:

if you're goal is to be better at Crossfit. Otherwise, Crossfit will never produce what Dan Green produces. It will never create a Malanichev, Konstantinov, Ilyin, Dimas, Bolt, Chrissie Wellington, Yohan Blake, Michael Phelps, David Rudisha and I could go on and on...however, if you are any of these folks then using CrossFit methodology as your cross-training/base strength and conditioning program will allow you to reach levels you would not otherwise obtain without incorporating a quality cross-training program into your training regimen
To clarify, are you saying that implementing a CrossFit style programme will make greater improvements than his current S&C programme? Of which you have no information on?
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:50 AM   #130
Tim Alford
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Re: Is Rich Froning the next Lance Armstrong?

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Originally Posted by Struan Potter View Post
To clarify, are you saying that implementing a CrossFit style programme will make greater improvements than his current S&C programme? Of which you have no information on?
I hope I'm not misquoting, but I believe he is referring to "if you want to be a better Crossfitter, than do more Crossfit". Rich's training is not hard to find if you do some research. No, I don't have his workout logs, but I've seen plenty of his videos and articles that highlight a typical day. He does metcons like the rest of us (although 4-5 in a day) and a significant amount of strength. Steven is just saying that it's not impossible to be as good as Froning without steroids if you are doing Crossfit workouts all the time. Just like Usain Bolt gets faster with his running, by.....running. Does that make sense? Because it does in my head.
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