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Old 07-24-2012, 02:16 PM   #1
Jon Friedland
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Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

So clearly this is a redline heartrate WOD for guys who are doing this in sub 6 or 7 minutes. 135# squat clean for me is doable but heavy and i had to do them 1 at a time with ~40 seconds rest between. If i attempted a squat snatch prior to full recovery i would miss (4 misses in the whole circuit). So i am thinking that counts as a strength workout for me. Dips unbroken. Any general thoughts about whether this was smart or if i should have gone to 95# or 115#?
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:21 PM   #2
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

You should have gone a lot lighter. Aside from increasing the risk of injury by lifting heavier weight than you're capable of, you're not getting any sort of conditioning effect out of taking that long to do what's supposed to be a short metcon.

Strength workouts shouldn't be done for time if you care about actually getting stronger or improving your technique.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:48 PM   #3
Charles Golden
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

Echo everything Eric said. You got through a WOD but what's the point if you're completely changing what's it was designed to do. There are certainly times when you should push yourself to RX stuff but do it within reason. As a guy who spent a long time scaling WODs, there's nothing wrong with it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:02 PM   #4
Clint Harris
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

If you know what your 1RM is, then you can start to guess whether a weight will be suitable for a wod or not to get the desired intensity. When you have a sprint, and >10 reps at a time to do, aim for about 60-70% of 1RM (or even 50). But if there's a wod where you do a short amount of reps, and is supposed to be a heavy slog, then aim at 70-80%. When you start going heavier than this, form goes downhill fast and it becomes a staring match between you and the bar.
Form comes into play too - like can you actually touch and go that weight? Is your 1RM a terrible rep where feet were way too wide, you dropped to one knee supporting your dropping elbow on your other knee, then somehow, with a rounded back and inward pressing knees grinded that weight up to standing. If that's your 1RM attempt, then you want to consider lower % to do a wod in. e.g. 60 or 55 rather than 70.
We've all made these same mistakes before - choosing either too light or too heavy, but it's a learning experience too. Consider this % formula to try and get desired intensity - it works well most of the time.
I also started to increase my wod weights by spending a couple of weeks using "girl RX" and then add 5 pounds for a couple of weeks, then so on and so forth. Worked good for barbell work. That and learning how to cut 40s rest down to a couple of breaths and go again.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:23 PM   #5
Richard Colon
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

I don't know enough about lactate thresholds, ATP, anaerobic vs. aerobic, oxygen vs. no oxygen, formal, literal, scientific workout methodologies and all the goodness associated with it.

What I do understand is common sense in training, outstanding programming and the general law of performance training to me. What happens under the bar (another term for "during the actual workout") rules all. Training can get too ridiculous for me and in my own opinion, extremely unnecessary. I don't need to break everything down into "is it speed/strength or strength/speed" or "is it lactate threshold training or short muscle fatigue endurance bull$hit whatever blah". For me it is "is it heavy? is it form/technique? do I suck at it? am I great at it? is it assistance work? is it high rep or low rep? is it addressing a weakness? is it a sprint (sub 5m or so), is it medium 5-10 to 12min or is it long, like 20+ minutes. Is it marathon style (Pendleton). That is all I need.

When you have a workout that is designed and commonly done in the 6-8 minute range you are testing significantly different areas (the areas might be the jumble of unnecessary stuff above that I don't know enough about) than a workout that has you going at for 35+ minutes.

Therefore, to answer the question of "what did I accomplish, I say nothing.

The fact that it took at least 4-5x longer to complete that workout tells me that you don't have the baseline level of conditioning/strength to manage the workout. To obtain that, especially the Strength part, you are far better served training in a time/rep/set/rest method that is so far removed from Elizabeth. So again, you didn't accomplish anything, because I don't see you improving your Elizabeth time by doing 30+ minute Elizabeth WoDs. The weights are too low to develop Strength in the Cleans. The time component means you cannot focus on the technique of the Cleans. The overall 30+ minute length means you are not training enough of the sprint/short metcon stuff (again, see above jumble) that is necessary to do a sub 7m Elizabeth.

It is kind of like doing a 17 minute Fran. At that point, I am not doing anything. It isn't even Fran anymore. I am not training my super fast recovery time (like the time to drop the Thrusters and transitioning to pull-ups), I am not training my sprint speed (not 100m sprint but any sub 3m WoD is a sprint to me), I am not training with enough weight to allow for the Front Squat or the Push Press to be easier, hence an easier Thrusters, etc. etc. I am just doing 2 movements at this point without thought to what I am trying to accomplish.

At least you posted it. Address why you sucked and work on that. Get better at O-lifts, not in a WoD. Go to Catalyst Athletics or Outlaw Wordpress blog programming and try that. Use youtube, ask on here. Once that gets better, your time will go down so long as you test your short metcon components (which can be done outside of Elizabeth).

Top Crossfiters (we saw Elizabeth at the games) don't blow Elizabeth out of the water because they are awesome at it. They do so because they are machines in short metcons AND they are good at ring dips and the clean weights are a non issue.

Last edited by Richard Colon : 07-24-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:16 AM   #6
Alexander Kornishev
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

On the bright side it was not totally wasted effort. It was not Elizabeth by any means but rather some kind of EMOTM protocol, very good workout for strength endurance development.
But yeah, you should scale your weights for metcons, I think for Elizabeth it should be around 50% of your 1RM.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:50 PM   #7
Theo Tsekouras
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

Remember, that when this CrossFit thing started, nobody did Elizabeth in 6-8 minutes. They were doing it double and triple that. Don't break it down to the Games. The Games are a fringe aspect of CrossFit. I'll tell you what you accomplished. If you are doing correct form, and that's an if, you gained mental fortitude. You also gained strength, cardiovascular increase, learned how to pace, learned not to go out too early, and learned how hard as **** it is to do. Most people are basing CrossFit on what they see today. This was not the case years ago. There were no games.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:54 PM   #8
Richard Colon
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo Tsekouras View Post
Remember, that when this CrossFit thing started, nobody did Elizabeth in 6-8 minutes. They were doing it double and triple that. Don't break it down to the Games. The Games are a fringe aspect of CrossFit. I'll tell you what you accomplished. If you are doing correct form, and that's an if, you gained mental fortitude. You also gained strength, cardiovascular increase, learned how to pace, learned not to go out too early, and learned how hard as **** it is to do. Most people are basing CrossFit on what they see today. This was not the case years ago. There were no games.
All of Crossfit today is bigger and faster. Any affiliate that trains people based upon how Crossfit was "back in the day" is behind the times. The next gym, 5 miles down the road that is not doing this will produce stronger, faster and simply better athletes. Even if people don't want to compete at any high level, no one wants to waste money, time or effort. Every workout could be considered to accomplish something but that doesn't mean it was efficient and most importantly - effective.

As I learned from my days in boxing; I stepped into the ring with a guy much better than me when I knew I should not have. At the end of 2 rounds, I swear I was punched in the body and head nearly 200 times. I thought "well, at least I learned how to endure and stick with it, that was a good mental thing for me." My trainer said - "you didn't practice anything worthwhile in there. You just learned how to get your a$$ kicked".

The goal should be to produce a faster time at Elizabeth, otherwise, whats the point of even turning on the clock? Why not just practice some Ring Dips and Cleans? To get faster you have to get better. You would learn more from the people that do it in 6-8 minutes by learning that they are stronger, better at gymnastic skills and they just move more efficiently. You won't get the same results by comparing yourself to what people did when they were "just as slow as you are."

If my goal is to run the fastest mile I can (for personal gain or to try and make the Olympics) I am going to study, endlessly, how the mile distance runners do it today. I am going to see how the guys that run sub 3:50 run it today. How they train and why they are efficient. I am not going to convince myself that my training had a purpose and was efficient, time after time as I run a 4:45 mile just because I know some dude in the mid 1800s ran it in 4:30. I won't pretend "I'm on the right track to being great" because I'm only 15 seconds off.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:55 AM   #9
Nathan Holmes
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Re: Elizabeth in 36 minutes ... but as Rxd. What did I accomplish?

I have found the website below to be extremely helpful when trying to determine proper scaling for high-rep WODS. The most useful part is at the very bottom.

http://www.yulisgym.com/enblog/wordpress/?p=143 (Safe For Work/Home/Church/Grandma/Family Reunion).
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