CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Nutrition
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-14-2012, 06:27 AM   #61
Luke Seubert
Member Luke Seubert is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lusby  MD
Posts: 1,559
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
The paleo version of the anti-fruit argument is basically (1) Paleo man only had access to it seasonally, and paleo fruit wasn't like modern orchard varieties, plus (2) fructose is bad for all the reasons Matt explained upthread.

(What I don't understand is why the same people who talk about how un-paleo fruit is have no qualms about stuff like bacon.)
Yeah, I have never understood the pro-bacon thing either. I mean, yeah, its tasty. And obviously a fine source of fat. But a good protein source? Meh. One is better off with pork tenderloin, which is a very high quality protein, fairly low in saturated fat. It is very tasty and juicy if cooked properly, and one can add fat or not as needed.

Nor do I see Paleo as being anti-fruit, per se. Stefan Lindeberg, arguably the best of the Paleo researchers, makes it very clear that Paleo diets were quite varied by geography and season, and that some Paleo peoples ate a lot of carbs and even lots of tropical fruits - the absolutely worst of the worst of those horrible fruits!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
My own take -- and my most significant criticism of the paleo diet -- is that moderation is an underappreciated virtue. If you're avoiding fruit, but dousing everything you eat in olive oil to get enough calories, something is wrong. A diet based on moderate portions of a wide variety of natural foods is a lot more sustainable.
This is true, but then, any diet can be unhealthy and unbalanced. Pescetarian diets, arguably one of the healthiest in the world, can be unbalanced when lacking in moderation. So too can vegan diets. And it is no surprise that Paleo diets can also be unhealthy and unbalanced. People have a remarkable capacity for screwing up any diet and making it unhealthy. That said, a moderate and sensible Paleo diet is very healthy and nutritious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
It's also important to remember that athletes are not the target audience for most diets, sedentary obese people are. Exercise is a very powerful stabilizer for many many metabolic issues, and so athletes simply don't have the same potential issues with things like blood sugar management that obese people do. Advice that might work well for someone who wants to lose weight while sitting on the couch might be disastrous for someone trying to "lean out" to be a more competitive Crossfitter.
Very true. A serious fat loss diet is substantially different from an average weight maintenance diet, which in turn is very different from a hardcore athletic training diet. The macronutrient ratios are wildly different as are the optimum foods to eat and caloric intake. Also, there needs to be some variation based upon individuality. Most fat people lose fat on a sensible low-carb, low-calorie diet, but a few don't. They need to carb up while cutting the calories.

For example, right now I am on a low-calorie, low-carb, ketogenic, Paleo diet; optimized for fat loss and muscle retention. I do exercise but I can't do a lot of it. And I avoid fructose, fruit, and alcohol - too many carbs and not helpful for my hard working, ketone churning liver. But later, when the fat is gone and I switch over to hard athletic training, I will definitely increase my carb intake substantially, along with generous helpings of fruit and some alcohol once in a while. Different diets for different needs.

I appreciate all the enthusiastic new Paleo dieters and CrossFitters in the forum, but so many of them are doing lots of CrossFit workouts while eating a low-calorie, low-carb Paleo diet, which simply can not sustain that much physical work.
__________________
Grinding off the fat one day at a time, one pound at a time - PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 07:14 AM   #62
Doug Blankenship
Member Doug Blankenship is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Las Vegas  NV
Posts: 1,306
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
Oh no you ditten
Two years ago Darryl would of been burned at the stake for saying such things.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 07:34 AM   #63
Dimitri Dziabenko
Banned Dimitri Dziabenko is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto  ON
Posts: 1,080
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blankenship View Post
Two years ago Darryl would of been burned at the stake for saying such things.
The night's young. A bunch of offhand comments about Taubes/Lustig and we'll be forced to crucify him with a bunch of carrots, while these are still paleo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 08:42 AM   #64
Arturo Garcia
Member Arturo Garcia is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Santo Domingo  Dominican Republic
Posts: 1,875
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
The night's young. A bunch of offhand comments about Taubes/Lustig and we'll be forced to crucify him with a bunch of carrots, while these are still paleo.
Actually, guys have started threads about the huge insulin spikes caused by carrots. And onions.

Lately I've been leaning out and I'm eating several pieces of fruit per day, and no berries or kiwis as those don't grow where I live in the caribbean. Papaya, banana, pineapple and mango have been the bulk of my fruits and I guess I'm leaning out because I'm at a caloric deficit? Have not done a metcon in a year either. We'll see.

I'm looking into this greek yogurt thing people mention often... is it Paleo?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 12:29 PM   #65
Doug Blankenship
Member Doug Blankenship is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Las Vegas  NV
Posts: 1,306
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia View Post
Actually, guys have started threads about the huge insulin spikes caused by carrots. And onions.

Lately I've been leaning out and I'm eating several pieces of fruit per day, and no berries or kiwis as those don't grow where I live in the caribbean. Papaya, banana, pineapple and mango have been the bulk of my fruits and I guess I'm leaning out because I'm at a caloric deficit? Have not done a metcon in a year either. We'll see.

I'm looking into this greek yogurt thing people mention often... is it Paleo?
Be very careful with greek yogurt. Rumor has it that if you eat more than 1 cup per day you will gain 1 pound of fat per day.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 01:27 PM   #66
John C Corona
Member John C Corona is offline
 
John C Corona's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Palm Bay  FL
Posts: 730
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara Mathews View Post
From reading Robb Wolf's book I got this general impression about fruit... If you are overweight, cutting back on fruit (after getting the rest of your diet in line) until reaching target weight is a good option, .....
But you should understand thats how all this anti-fruit starts. That statement has people questioning a 100 calorie apple. Even though he doesnt say fruit is bad explicitly, this suggests that something is off, and people get confused as to 1 apple, or can I have 2 and so on.
__________________
37/M/5'10"/170.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 09:11 AM   #67
Frances Ballesteros
Member Frances Ballesteros is offline
 
Frances Ballesteros's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Madrid  Spain
Posts: 774
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Click image for larger version

Name:	3oon50.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	21.2 KB
ID:	9413

__________________
I love eating
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 12:22 PM   #68
Luke Seubert
Member Luke Seubert is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lusby  MD
Posts: 1,559
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia View Post
Actually, guys have started threads about the huge insulin spikes caused by carrots. And onions.
Um, well.... carrots and onions do have a fair amount of sugar in them, especially if they are thoroughly cooked, a process which breaks down the complex carbs in those foods into simple sugars. So, if thoroughly cooked onions and carrots are eaten in large quantities, yeah, you can get an insulin spike.

I'm not saying people should avoid these foods. I am eating onions and carrots this very day myself, and I am on a very low carb diet right now. But folks should be aware that some veggies carry a considerable carbohydrate load, and that the glycemic index can change substantially with processing and/or cooking.
__________________
Grinding off the fat one day at a time, one pound at a time - PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 01:25 PM   #69
Darryl Shaw
Member Darryl Shaw is offline
 
Darryl Shaw's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manchester  England
Posts: 1,925
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Seubert View Post
Um, well.... carrots and onions do have a fair amount of sugar in them, especially if they are thoroughly cooked, a process which breaks down the complex carbs in those foods into simple sugars. So, if thoroughly cooked onions and carrots are eaten in large quantities, yeah, you can get an insulin spike.

I'm not saying people should avoid these foods. I am eating onions and carrots this very day myself, and I am on a very low carb diet right now. But folks should be aware that some veggies carry a considerable carbohydrate load, and that the glycemic index can change substantially with processing and/or cooking.
According to the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference (wfs) boiled and drained carrots have 35kcal/100g and 8.2g of carbohydrate, boiled and drained onions have 44kcal/100g and 10.15g of carbohydrate, and when sauteed the calorie content of onions increases to 132kcal/100g due to the addition of fat with just 7.86g of carbohdrate. Clearly any fear carbophobes may have of cooked carrots and onions is misplaced to put it mildly.

Last edited by Darryl Shaw; 06-16-2012 at 01:30 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 02:44 PM   #70
Luke Seubert
Member Luke Seubert is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lusby  MD
Posts: 1,559
Re: sweet potatoes versus fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
According to the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference (wfs) boiled and drained carrots have 35kcal/100g and 8.2g of carbohydrate, boiled and drained onions have 44kcal/100g and 10.15g of carbohydrate, and when sauteed the calorie content of onions increases to 132kcal/100g due to the addition of fat with just 7.86g of carbohdrate. Clearly any fear carbophobes may have of cooked carrots and onions is misplaced to put it mildly.
Agreed. I am on a carbophobic diet right now, and I am eating onions and carrots today, albeit in small portions. Still, really large quantities of well-cooked carrots or onions can cause an insulin spike, most especially as such foods are often eaten in conjunction with other foods which also boost insulin levels.

This is especially true of onions. If you have ever made French onion soup, which requires lengthy cooking times of onions and full carmelization, most of the carbs in onions are converted to sugar and offered in highly condensed form, once the water in the onion is cooked off. A couple kilos worth of onions cooks down to a very compact and tasty dish.

In the end, starchy and sugary vegetables simply contain more carbs per 100 g serving than low glycemic index, low glycemic load veggies. Compare the carb profile of onions or carrots with, say, asparagus or broccoli or collards. There is a big difference. Those few people who are on a very carb-restricted diet should be careful with their portion sizes when eating the higher carb veggies.
__________________
Grinding off the fat one day at a time, one pound at a time - PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sweet Potatoes Mitch Jensen Nutrition 10 03-31-2010 06:15 PM
Paleo question on potatoes and sweet potatoes Jae Chung Nutrition 15 07-06-2009 08:47 PM
Yams vs. Sweet Potatoes Mike Groth Nutrition 7 02-09-2009 05:44 PM
Raw Potatoes versus Cooked Potatoes & Zone Jonathan Silverman Nutrition 6 12-06-2007 08:02 AM
Raw sweet potatoes Kevin McKay Nutrition 11 09-27-2006 04:39 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:40 PM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.