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Old 05-08-2014, 04:04 PM   #21
Josh Groves
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Well before we get too much deeper, how tall are you?
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:16 PM   #22
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

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Originally Posted by Josh Groves View Post
Well before we get too much deeper, how tall are you?
5 feet and 10 inches. My legs are 39 inches (measured from iliac crest, the protrusion of the hip bone) or 33 inches (measured from inner thigh) and arms 31 inches (measured from upper part of shoulders).

Nothing special, I presume?
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:31 AM   #23
Josh Groves
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Dare, sorry it's taken me a bit to answer this last bit.

I asked about height because if you were 6'3" or something, that might have an significant impact on form, but at 5'10" you should be able to do this pretty comfortably.

I think you are able to get into that position, but that you lack strength in that position in the hamstrings and glutes and end up taking most of that load in the low-back. When you shift your hips down and start with a higher chest, you're able to mitigate that weakness by bringing your quads into the picture a lot more.

I would definitely not stop deadlifting, but what I would do is to make sure that you're adding accessory exercises in after your 5/3/1 sets that make sense to address your weaknesses. Back extensions, hip extensions, Glute-Ham Raises (or similar), Good mornings, anything that can help to build some strength down there.

For your 70-80-90%, make sure you recalculate these based on 90% of the 1RM you calculated, dropping down a bit will lower that percentage just a bit and help you with being able to hold form better. So if your 1RM is 200 lbs (just using an easy number), you would base 70-80-90% off of 180lbs.

Stop and reset for every. single. rep.

When you set up, stand over the bar and look down at it. The bar should cut your shoelaces in half (just below the knot). Now, hinge your hips backward and reach down and grab the bar. Rock your shins forward until they are lightly touching the bar. Now lift your sternum while keeping your shoulder blades down and back (squeeze the lats). To start the lift, squeeze back into your heels, hamstrings, and glutes and lift your sternum. You should feel the primary tension in the hamstrings and glutes. You can try this with an unloaded barbell until you feel confident that you're using the right muscles to perform the movement and you'd be surprised how challenging it can be.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:50 PM   #24
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Thanks, Ill work on my form first.

I still struggle with understanding the proper mechanic behind the lift.

Is this way, by elliot hulse, the correct form? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5qcN_w_m8c (not sure if its 100% wfs)

It seems like starting in a squat position to me, but I understand why...because without low hips its almost impossible to get the same low back arch he is talking about, but I dunno, maybe his way is wrong?
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:48 AM   #25
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Is this any better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEwGJt1hkJU WFS

(light weights, but working on the form)
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:28 AM   #26
Josh Groves
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post

Is this way, by elliot hulse, the correct form? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5qcN_w_m8c (not sure if its 100% wfs)

It seems like starting in a squat position to me, but I understand why...because without low hips its almost impossible to get the same low back arch he is talking about, but I dunno, maybe his way is wrong?
That video has some use, but the last reps he has the guy do are a bit deceptive as his hips get too low as I think Elliot is really trying to just get him to fix his back alignment. If you note through the midway portion of the video, the hips are a lot higher when he returns the bar to the ground and you see this as well when Elliot demonstrates a few reps (http://grab.by/wShO - w/f/s)

The key takeaway from this video that applies to you is the bit that Elliot talks about regarding keeping the shoulderblades locked in that back position (more on this below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Is this any better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEwGJt1hkJU WFS

(light weights, but working on the form)
Your alignment overall looks much better. As mentioned above, the shoulders should be locked back in place before you start and stay there. If you watch your video, note that when you stand, you then roll the shoulders back to finish the lift. You want to have those shoulders engaged like you have them at the top of the lift from the get-go. This goes back to my comment previously about squeezing your lats as you engage with the bar, you can also think about pulling the shoulder blades back and down to help with this as well. Sometimes people just can't figure that out in the start position however, and the best way I can get them to learn that feeling is to start from the top where they're locked into good alignment, and then fighting to keep it (which Elliot talks about in the video and has the guy try to hold that alignment in static positions throughout the way down).

Hopefully that's clear enough, if any of that is confusing just point it out and I can try to clear it up.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:06 AM   #27
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Got it, thanks! Lots of stuff I have to work on! As to strengthening my shoulders so I can have them locked throw entire lift, which assistance exercises do you recommend?

Funny how biggest problem to me seems to be the head position, I just cant keep it straight
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:20 AM   #28
Josh Groves
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Pull ups, supine ring rows, bent-over barbell/dumbell rows.

Also, practicing the lift from the top down, get locked into good position and maintain it under control on the way down with light loads (30-50% 1RM).
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:41 PM   #29
Tate Dimech
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Dare - I usually do a reset between each rep when I doing 5RM on CFFB. I don't really like t'n'g anything as form suffers for speed.
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Old 05-17-2014, 08:52 AM   #30
David Meverden
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Your video still shows a touch-and-go, Dare. I will also encourage you to reset every rep (4th person to say that?). If you don't know what we mean, a decent example for that point is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6mVhe7kh0Q#t=0m47s (tank top workout guy, basically WFS)

After every rep he gets a new breath and starts a fresh pull.

Sometimes on a heavy *** deadlifts I'll actually stand up to get a breath and better reset between later reps. Some people might say that doesn't constitute a set anymore, or it's a cluster or whatever. I say those people are over thinking it.
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