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Old 05-07-2014, 08:20 AM   #11
Josh Groves
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
No, I calculated 1RM based on my 1+ lift to get the approx number. But I did a +20 lb 1RM lift months ago but with awful form and got scared for my back, ever since I try to improve lower back tightness.

This could be part of the challenge, in Wendler, 70-80-90 are actually calculated based on 90% of your 1RM. So whatever you calculated your 1RM to be, take 90% of that, and then calculate your lifts from there.

I am able to lead with sternum on lighter weights, something like 60, 70%. But as I approach 80%+ I just cant move the weight off the ground without my hips going up first. At least I think so, maybe Ill record my 60% lifts to compare form.

Yea, the head position is awful, but there is a mirror 2 feet away and I try to observe my form in it, need to stop doing that.

Try keeping your head neutral and see if that helps fix your issues with the butt shooting up. Sometimes it's as simple as that. Also (as you'll see below), reset in between each rep. This isn't a metcon, no need to do touch-and-go reps.

Maybe a good idea would be to skip deadlift on my next wendler cycle and focus on deadlift exercises that will improve my form and then re-start with next cycle?

Disagree, just address the basic issues and you'll be fine.
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Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
If you are doing Wendler, before subbing out the deadlift and trying to repair piece by piece, you may want to do a reset and do each rep as perfect as possible.

For strength building, I'm not a fan of bouncing the reps since this is reinforcing your bad technique. Do a mini reset between each rep--hips in the right place and shoulders in the right place. Get rid of the momentum from the bounce.

Good advice

I think your shoulders are too far in front of the bar. It looks like you pull the bar in close to your legs (which is good), but your shoulders aren't directly above the bar or behind it. So you have your butt back (good) but the shoulders forward and your back gets caught in the middle to move the lift.

Ideally, shoulders should be above the bar or slightly behind to counterbalance the weight of the bar. The more weight you can get behind the bar the more you can use it to pull up.

Here, I have to disagree. I'm not sure where you got this information, but the bar should be just under the base of the shoulder blades, with the arms straight down. If you have the shoulders above or behind the bar, you will have your hips much too low and will basically be doing a squat with the bar in a hang position and the bar will have to go around the knees instead of the knees around the bar.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:07 AM   #12
Robert Fabsik
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

I'm not sure we are in disagreement. I think his shoulders in the 90% are too far forward and if he moved them back they may be more in line with your definition.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:16 AM   #13
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

I tried to follow all advices and did this today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpQV_-3XDGk

Gym was quite crouded so only managed to do one short session, very low weight, focused on form. I forgot not to bounce at the bottom, but how does the rest look like, should the head be even lower?
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:34 AM   #14
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

It's obviously going to be more difficult to tell with the lighter weight and the speed you are going but the head looks a lot better. For your head position just think about keeping your head such that you do not create any angle where your spine goes from your back to your neck (keep that like a straight continuous line).

It still looks like you are moving the bar around your knees instead of pulling in a straight line. While it is hard to tell, you might be starting with the bar too close to your shins. You want to keep it close to your body for sure but you don't want to have to move the bar laterally either.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:48 AM   #15
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

It seems thats because I dont reset at the bottom and using the bounce momentum. I'v speed down the video on my computer and first pull seems almost like a straight line, but then, when going down the bar does not end at the same position as it started - maybe I am leaning too much forward, should shift weight a bit more on the heals/back, as the bar seems to move away more after going around the knees.

I've read that some people say (most likely because they lift such heay weights) that they just "slide" the bar on the skin/legs all the time, is this the proper technique? While "my" bar does not always stay in contact with my body and therefore its easier I dont drop it as I should?
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:56 AM   #16
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

I am not the authority on it or anything but I rarely ever get marks on my legs/shins from sliding the bar along my body. I will notice at times I will pull the bottom of my shorts up a bit on the way up but I don't actively touch the bar to my legs throughout the lift. At the top there might be some more contact but I wouldn't call it sliding.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:33 AM   #17
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

About the same for me, but I can imagine, if Id really go for a PR, there should be some blood

Anyway, what are the cues or guides for you to drop the bar in the straight line, do you just watch to keep balance on the heels when going past the knees or anything else?
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:50 AM   #18
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
About the same for me, but I can imagine, if Id really go for a PR, there should be some blood

Anyway, what are the cues or guides for you to drop the bar in the straight line, do you just watch to keep balance on the heels when going past the knees or anything else?
To be honest, I am not sure, I haven't ever had that issue and do not coach people on the lift that regularly. I would imagine it is a combination of your setup along with staying back in your heels while keeping your knees from dropping in. Next time you go heavier imagine you trying to press your heels through the ground and see how that works. This will work much better if you do not touch and go as trying to imitate that would only really help on the first rep.
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:38 PM   #19
Josh Groves
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
I'v speed down the video on my computer and first pull seems almost like a straight line, but then, when going down the bar does not end at the same position as it started - maybe I am leaning too much forward, should shift weight a bit more on the heals/back, as the bar seems to move away more after going around the knees.

I've read that some people say (most likely because they lift such heay weights) that they just "slide" the bar on the skin/legs all the time, is this the proper technique? While "my" bar does not always stay in contact with my body and therefore its easier I dont drop it as I should?
You nailed what I saw in the lighter reps you tried, you actually look pretty good on the pull but your hips are a quite a bit lower than I'd like them to be, you're almost in a squatting position: http://grab.by/wIOq (wfs). Try to aim for a starting position (and finish) looking more like this: http://grab.by/wIOY (wfs).

Your biggest issue is returning the bar to the ground, as you noticed when you slowed down the video. What you're doing that is causing the bar to travel diagonally away from you is that you're letting the bar separate from your thighs. Try to think about sitting back into your hamstrings and as the bar is going down, you want to make contact with the thigh, almost like you're sliding off a pair of pants. Try to keep the knees back until the bar passes the knee cap, just as when you are lifting the bar from the ground.
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:48 PM   #20
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Deadlift and lower back issue...

This is my main issue and why I started this thread. It seems I cant get in the position that guy in your second picture is. I suspect its because of tight hamstrings as my back starts to round and I cant maintain lower back tightness. When my hips go higher, lower back loses tightness.

What I do is get in the position and then "load" the hamstrings, when I feel Ive hit max position, I start the lift. Unfortunately it looks like a squat :/

Can you give me a suggestion on how much weight to use when working on my form? Too light and too heavy aint optimum, I suppose, something in the range of 70% would be best, or 80%? How often to do the form drills, on top of my main wendler deadlift day?
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