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Old 11-28-2008, 08:01 AM   #11
Derek Maffett
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Sara Fleming View Post
My point, Derek, is that your article is printed in a Catholic journal. It is not a medical journal. It is printed in the "Catholic Education Resource Center". I was trying to be discreet. Since you are calling me out. I will stop being discreet. David has already scolded me about mentioning religion so I can't really do that, but you are essentially doing that by citing religious propaganda against homosexuality here. So I see this entire thread being dumped here pretty soon.

You would like it to be trashed, perhaps. However, that article was written by a doctor who may or may not be Catholic. Morality is not amongst the things he talks about. Thus your next quoted line is incorrect. And here's a random other site I found that doesn't look religious.

http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml wfs

Here we see that 75% of infections of women now are heterosexually transmitted. Which means that 25% of the infections are homosexually transmitted (lesbians being theoretically 1-2% of the population).


The main gist of the article is that homosexual sex is, by its very nature, dirty and immoral. The article is stating that homosexuality consists solely of acts of depravity in which bodily fluids, fecal matter, and all kinds of bacteria and viruses are transmitted. These acts are solely acts and not relationships and if you think they are part of a relationship, think again because this is clearly contradicted by the anecdotal experiences of a lesbian actor and singer as clearly shown in the appendix.

STD's are not transmitted through smiles and fond glances. Furthermore, I am not sure exactly what the example your talking about is saying. It seems to me that she is saying that she previously believed sex to be an activity rather than an identity but came to believe it as more "connected." That is, the act being more connected to the identity than she previously believed. The quote is somewhat difficult to understand, though, so I may be mistaken. Regardless, I do not think it's a very effective argument to say that homosexuals are not engaging in the act. And the more that are not, the more significant the disease rates become.

For one, this characterization, although may have some basis in truth (because it pretty much characterizes casual sex of all kinds), as a charaterization of the population as a whole is pure hogwash.

Oh, and we forgot to leave out the years of social and psychological abuse and isolation from not only strangers, but their friends and families that makes **** afraid to come out and actually form lasting relationships.

Actually, today's society is more accepting of homosexuality than ever before in the United States. And of course, your seeming argument that all the problems would just go away if homosexuals were accepted completely and totally (not possible since as long as there is a problem, you will blame it on apparently still-existent prejudice), is starting to diverge from the thread.

It might make parents afraid that there kids are experimenting with *** sex. It should also make them afraid that their middle schoolers are already engaging in oral sex and mutual masturbation. This is also creeping down into fourth and fifth grades. Don't worry about the homosexuals, worry about the sex.

Sorry, the priest issue is relevant. Anytime this very influential governing body is going to beat anyone over the head with their ideas about sex, they damn well better be able to answer for their sins. Don't tow the party line. Why don't you do some research on why priest were required to be celibate to begin with. I'll give you a hint, it had a lot to do with money.

As I said, the article was simply printed from a Catholic source. That is all. Furthermore, you don't want any "answering for their sins (as if the Catholic Church supports child molestation or homosexuality)." You want the ability to throw out anything related to that source whenever you want.

Incidentally, public school teachers molest children quite frequently. Do you complain every time they say anything?
......

Last edited by Derek Maffett : 11-28-2008 at 08:23 AM.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 08:12 AM   #12
Sara Fleming
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

Derek,

I'm arguing nothing of the sort. I'm simply not trying to blame the sins of the world (and the world's diseases) on homosexuals.

The "doctor" in his "scientific" article uses anecdotal evidence (not scientific) of unstable celebrities (Anne Heche and Sinead O'Connor) as examples of homosexual behavior.

I am a scientist. I am a biochemist and worked as a medical researcher for ten years. I have been published. This article, in my humble, but informed and educated opinion, is not a scientific or medical article, it is propaganda. If you don't believe me, ask the many other scientists who post here.

I'm going to respectfully disengage, tap out, whatever, now.

Sara
 
Old 11-28-2008, 08:21 AM   #13
Derek Maffett
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Eric Neri View Post
I don't see how, but since see logic has no place here, let's have some fun. The amazing thing about statistics is that they can be made to say anything. For example, perhaps it's religion that causes a higher prevalence of HIV:
"Muslim areas of Africa have lower rates of HIV infelction"

Are we done being silly yet?
X group of people has higher rate of STD's than group Y. Group Y engages in heterosexual sex. Group X engages in either only homosexual sex or both heterosexual and homosexual sex. Since STD's are mainly transmitted by sex and there are no significant differences between the two groups in regard to the other ways of getting STD's (blood or other non-sexual means of transmission), it might be surmised that homosexual sex is the reason behind the increased rates of STD's in Group X. It wouldn't be an official conclusion (like a study would want), but it does not seem unreasonable.

Please spell out what you consider logic flaws instead of simply saying that they are there.

You seem to be implying that the link you provide is ridiculous, but I fail to see the logic flaw in the statement "people with religious reasons not to do something that would tend to give them STD's have lower rates of STD's than those with less desire to avoid those same actions because those actions are not done as often by the first group." I refer you now to my previous request that you please spell out any perceived logic flaws.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 08:35 AM   #14
Eric Neri
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
You seem to be implying that the link you provide is ridiculous, but I fail to see the logic flaw in the statement "people with religious reasons not to do something that would tend to give them STD's have lower rates of STD's than those with less desire to avoid those same actions because those actions are not done as often by the first group." I refer you now to my previous request that you please spell out any perceived logic flaws.
I though my implication was clear. What I was implying was that what was rediculous would be the idea that would follow from that article I posted using the same logic used by you and the catholic journal. The idea that would follow would be that Muslims have a lower prevalence of HIV than Catholics therefore being a Catholic is a cause of HIV.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 09:09 AM   #15
Jay Cohen
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

Derek

I find the timing of your post on this subject somewhat ironic, as there is a very active *** CFrs thread in the Community section.

Tell me you just had this burning desire to discuss STDs and Homosexuality and its not related to the *** thread?

If not related, discuss on, if related, then I think its somewhat of a vindictive post, THOUGH OF COURSE I MAY BE WRONG AND I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE, NO SLAM INTENDED.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 09:10 AM   #16
Derek Maffett
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Eric Neri View Post
I though my implication was clear. What I was implying was that what was rediculous would be the idea that would follow from that article I posted using the same logic used by you and the catholic journal. The idea that would follow would be that Muslims have a lower prevalence of HIV than Catholics therefore being a Catholic is a cause of HIV.
Ah, I see. For one, you would be assuming that Muslims have a lower prevalence of HIV than Catholics, which the study does not indicate. You would also have to come up with a possible explanation with a test which is specific enough to give such an explanation. Obviously, this is also missing.

So you're saying that higher rates of STD's in homosexuals than in heterosexuals is not related to the homosexual acts/lifestyle? Then what is it related to? Homosexuality seems like a very likely reason (I'm pretty sure these things aren't being transmitted disproportionately for any other reasons), but you're welcome to put forth your own explanation if you wish.

Incidentally, you wouldn't be trying to bring in religion in the hopes of getting the mods to take down the thread, now would you? That would be sneaky and rather disingenuous.

Sara, you should know that homosexual men are considered a high risk group by even the supporters of homosexuality. Why is that, exactly? It's not because they have equal STD rates.

Here, this one as well seems rather non-religious.

http://www.thebody.com/content/art23502.html wfs

Quote:
Of about 8,000 syphilis cases reported in 2004, "approximately 84 percent occurred among men," and CDC estimates nearly 65 percent were MSM.
1-2% of the population accounting for all that is very significant in my opinion.

Last edited by Derek Maffett : 11-28-2008 at 09:18 AM.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 09:36 AM   #17
Jill Zimmerman
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

Guilty as charged, I started it and as I said and got lazy. I will when I get a chance sorry for getting off your topic. I just worry, about my kids about anyone not in a committed relationship including me. Dangerous stuff.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 09:40 AM   #18
Eric Neri
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Jay Cohen View Post
Derek

I find the timing of your post on this subject somewhat ironic, as there is a very active *** CFrs thread in the Community section.

Yes, I don't belive the timing was a coincidence at all which is the only reason I responded to it. I went to look at the thread and right above it I see what appears to be someone giving us the finger. Derek, you're the one who brought religion into it by posting something from a Catholic journal. Your attempts to position it as scientific are not valid. You know that an article in a religious journal is going to have an agenda. Plus, any article that starts off refencing data from the 70s obviously has an agenda.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 10:01 AM   #19
Derek Maffett
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

You want a new article, then? Fine. Relatively new data as well.

http://www.ncfamily.org/FNC/0707S3.html

Similar to the first article (including its status in regards to wfs), but this time it's not a Catholic journal article. However, this organization doesn't seem particularly "pro-homo" either. Not terribly surprising, since pro-homo organizations are not likely to write articles that make themselves look bad.
 
Old 11-28-2008, 10:13 AM   #20
Derek Maffett
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Re: STD's and homosexuality

CDC on HIV cases.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00017102.htm wfs
 
 


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