CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-10-2004, 11:50 AM   #1
Tim Smith
Member Tim Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: West Sacramento  Ca
Posts: 48
Hi to the crossfit community. I have been lurking for some time and have come to be a believer in the crossfit approach. As an introduction to the program, my wife and I were doing tabata squats last night. She has bad knees and cannot squat. Does anyone have a suggestion for a substitute exercise to work the quads in the tabata format?
Sincere thanks,
Tim Smith
Sacramento, CA
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2004, 12:43 PM   #2
Albert Clayton
Member Albert Clayton is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Antonio  Texas
Posts: 186
Tim, I also have bad knees, but I have found that doing squats whether tabata or with weights has taken away the knee pain ( mostly). I know that this is not the case for everyone. Half squats in either format give my knees problems, full squats do not. What type of knee problem does she have is it an issue of flexibilty ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 07:38 AM   #3
Nicholas Nibler
Affiliate Nicholas Nibler is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle  Washington
Posts: 29
Tim,
It wasn't until I started squating that the pain from my acl repair went away. Generally, we've found that squating, with proper technique, can provide a large degree of relief for old injuries.

It would be worth the time and effort to find someone to work with her on the squat.
Nick
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 08:35 AM   #4
Paul Symes
Member Paul Symes is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: London  Croydon
Posts: 299
Maybe a bit off topic here but I've been recovering from a back injury for the last six months and now and again I get aching and stiffness, the remedy is squatting. The next day my back feels lose and pain free.

I'm sure I've read a study but I can't remember where, which said the stress on the knees whilst squatting was far less than other leg exercises e.g. leg press and leg extension
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 08:58 AM   #5
Steve Shafley
Banned Steve Shafley is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saginaw  MI
Posts: 508
Paul Chek, while wacky on some points, has a pretty decent series of articles about squatting and why it's a "primal" movement over on Mercola's site.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 09:56 AM   #6
James Hall
Member James Hall is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Gatesville  Texas
Posts: 61
What I've found with my patients with knee pain is to introduce squats, range within their tolerance, at the beginning. In no time, they are descending further and their knee pain is lessened. FUNCTIONAL exercises are the key, regardless of the joint.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 10:21 AM   #7
Paul Symes
Member Paul Symes is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: London  Croydon
Posts: 299
Yep it's a good article

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/28/fear_the_squat.htm
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 11:36 AM   #8
Beth Moscov
Member Beth Moscov is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boulder Creek  CA
Posts: 1,269
Tim - something that seemed to help me a lot with knee pain was to start with holding the squat position - at whatever level was comfortable but a challenge. This was in addition to regular squats. Also lunges, done with perfect form helped my knees. It seemed my knee problems were due to strong muscles in parts of my legs but the little stabilizer muscles were not strong. Knowing what I know now about Crossfit and functionality, I blame those machines and the isolationist focus on particular muscles for my past knee (and now low back) issues. One thing gets over developed and something else doesn't catch up and results in pain and injury. It is like we don't trust our bodies to know how to grow so we plan it for them instead of using whole body, functional exercises and let our whole body grow in strength together.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 07:46 PM   #9
David Wood
Departed David Wood is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
 
Posts: 3,303
Tim:

Along with all the good advice you're getting above, try to really focus on perfect (PERFECT!) alignment and gently extend the range of motion you can do unweighted.

I was able to get past a fairly wide range of supposedly "dangerous" knee deformities and/or injuries just by going slow (squats are easy now, although OH squats are still a challenge!).

A guy name Pete Escogue wrote a pretty good book on using careful movement in perfect alignment to restore functionality:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060924306/104-0061554-2159916?v=g lance&vi=reviews

I wouldn't endorse everything he says, but it's worth checking out. It's not a new book, so your local library or used book store probably has it.

Dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 08:02 PM   #10
David Wood
Departed David Wood is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
 
Posts: 3,303
Tim:

You know, I realized that every one of us didn't answer your question . . . you wanted substitutions, we wanted you to squat, darn it.:happy:

One thing to note: squats work a lot more than the "quads" . . . what they do for the whole "posterior chain", and particularly the hip extensors (gluteues and hamstrings) is more important . . . and why they are so valued (and why we all immediately tried to talk you into continuing with them).

But . . . substitutions . . . hmmm . . . the object would be to really stress the hip extensors *without* stressing the knees . . . the hip extensor are large muscles that consume a lot of oxygen when working hard, so that's what induces the (an)aerobic training element that you're looking for in Tabata's.


My first choice would probably be a bike or elliptical traininer . . . (the bike really *will* focus on the quads). Paul Scott was posting about the elliptical trainer idea the other day http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/3499/5287.html
and it sounds pretty effective . . . will definitely work the legs and lungs pretty hard.

These still require equipment, though . . . it would be nice to have something that didn't need equipment . . . (I guess that eliminates swimming? (Hard 25 yard repeats, rest 5-10 seconds, go again, is pretty close to a Tabata protocol (but one that stresses the arms more than the legs)).

One other possibility is to do squat thrusts (Burpees without the jump) instead of just squats in the Tabata. You're still doing squats in the squat thrust, but probably only 7 or so per 20 second interval instead of 15 - 20 . . . maybe that would be more tolerable?

Do you have access to a rower (preferrably a Concept 2)? Those will absolutely fry you in a Tabata format, and keep the legs/knees in a pretty comfortable groove. I know a couple of people who can row even though they claim their knees are too shot to squat.

Best of luck,
Dave
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Substitution Q Luke Rossmo Equipment 7 05-31-2007 01:14 AM
Squat/Bench Rack/Spotting Safety Racks--Suggestions? Evan Fitts Equipment 8 04-19-2007 03:17 PM
I need a substitution!! Ben Nance Nutrition 13 04-17-2007 02:43 PM
Need suggestions for Squat / Bench / Dip equipment Jeremy Kam Equipment 10 05-18-2005 07:38 AM
Substitution for 5k row. Jay Edvardz Workout of the Day 5 11-12-2003 08:43 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.