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Old 01-12-2014, 01:31 AM   #1
Omar Omar
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Who has experimented with doing this?

I do grappling and BJJ 7x week. One hour class each, 2 hours back to back on Tue and Thur. I usually feel very good at the end of each week but there are no more classes available to do. I also am adding weightlifting as part of my new year’s resolution thing.

I have a 2x/week weightlifting program. Each single day has 6 exercises at various sets/reps. Power clean, hang power clean, squat, deadlift, bench press, shoulder press, two abdominal workouts, hip thrusters and pull ups.

Essentially, I am supposed to do the workouts separately. What I am thinking of doing instead is doing one to two of the overall exercises after each class. This way I am already warmed up, and I save the drive!

Is this as effective or would it not be as smart? I figured I am in the recovery window so might as well… What do you think?

Thanks.
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:36 AM   #2
Pearse Shields
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

Wouldn't do strength work directly after BJJ. Strength work should be done when fresh.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:55 PM   #3
Dakota Base
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

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Originally Posted by Pearse Shields View Post
Wouldn't do strength work directly after BJJ. Strength work should be done when fresh.
This.

After a training workout, if you can't spread them out further during a day, then at least go eat a meal, work on homework, watch a movie, have a beer, wash your car, whatever, just take at least a few hours to recharge and recover before coming back to strength training. Be sure to warm up again properly, and listen to your body to prevent injury.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:26 PM   #4
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

I'm going to disagree with my buddy Pearse on this. If you are only doing one or two different lifts and it's not an insane amount of volume (roughly over 20 working reps), doing it immediately following a jiu jitsu class isn't the worst thing, especially on the days when class lasts one hour. I wouldn't try to lift after the 2hr Tue/Thu classes. Maybe fit the bodyweight workouts in on those days, but you may not get much out of it.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:28 AM   #5
Dakota Base
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

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I'm going to disagree with my buddy Pearse on this. If you are only doing one or two different lifts and it's not an insane amount of volume (roughly over 20 working reps), doing it immediately following a jiu jitsu class isn't the worst thing, especially on the days when class lasts one hour. I wouldn't try to lift after the 2hr Tue/Thu classes. Maybe fit the bodyweight workouts in on those days, but you may not get much out of it.
That's the key for me here.

He's already only lifting 2days a week, with a SHOTGUN BLAST program. I'd be amazed even following it to a tee that he's getting anything good out of it.

Doing one or two exercises following a fight workout isn't going to give any gains either. The volume doing a total of 4 lifts a week isn't going to do anything except give him the false mental sense of doing more work.

The idea of Pearse and my recommendation to spread the workouts to give your body a fresh hit at the strength workout is QUALITY OF WORKOUT. After a quality roll, your energy will be drained and muscles hot.

So it's brutal honesty time: What are you trying to accomplish by lifting weights? Are you wanting to gain strength? Build size? Just maintain strength? Or mentally believe you're doing something productive, even if you aren't?

There are proven methods for gaining strength to supplement fight training. There are proven methods for maintaining strength to supplement fight training. None of them involve piggy-backing workouts on top of eachother or involve ultra-minimalist programming.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:30 PM   #6
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

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That's the key for me here.
Doing one or two exercises following a fight workout isn't going to give any gains either. The volume doing a total of 4 lifts a week isn't going to do anything except give him the false mental sense of doing more work.
I understood why you and Pearse said this, but I'm taking two things into consideration. First, some of his classes are only an hour long. Unless they're jumping right into competition rolls from the beginning of class, I don't expect someone who is in good shape (including good grappling shape) to be anywhere near wrecked after an hour long class. I'm making the (possibly poor) assumption that at least a quarter of time (if not more) is spent on technique. If my assumption is true, doing a lift session afterwards should be feasible.

The second consideration is that he said that he didn't seem that physically taxed after class. Again, depending on the class structure, he simply may not be exerting that much during class.

I've done an hour and half class (15min warm-up, 45min technique, 30min rolling) and had enough energy for one or two good lifts after.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:53 AM   #7
Dakota Base
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. No part of my experience in the last 20yrs in strength training and 15yrs of combative arts training makes me believe in what you are saying.

I fully understand the misconception you are having about "not feeling spent" after classes. The fact that a grappler doesn't feel spent after a workout doesn't mean they are FRESH. For strength training benefits, your body should be FRESH. The fact that I can roll for an hour and then go deadlift within 10lbs of my PR doesn't mean that it will benefit me to do so. Strength training should be about getting stronger, and lifting weights on used muscles, even if it's just 30min of rolling, is NOT beneficial for strength gains. Strength training for gains is about neurology and chemistry more than psychology.

A better option would be to lift BEFORE your grappling classes, grab 30min to an hour to recover between (considering you start the class with 15-30min of technique), then focus on NOT taxing your muscles during the class. It's still less than ideal, but better than lifting on hot muscles.

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I've done an hour and half class (15min warm-up, 45min technique, 30min rolling) and had enough energy for one or two good lifts after.
I believe you are drastically overestimating the benefit you are getting from "one or two good lifts" (especially considering the OP has available TWO DAYS A WEEK. 4 sets a week won't benefit him at all). If it makes you feel like you're doing extra work, then great, but I'm not prone to believe, based on my strength training experience, that there are any real gains being made. Caveat: if you have a low level of strength, then ANYTHING helps, but if you're a competitive grappler, I hope that you're not dealing with low strength.

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Old 01-17-2014, 02:08 PM   #8
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

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A better option would be to lift BEFORE your grappling classes, grab 30min to an hour to recover between (considering you start the class with 15-30min of technique), then focus on NOT taxing your muscles during the class. It's still less than ideal, but better than lifting on hot muscles.
This is also a good option b/c assuming you are somewhat fatigued from your lifts, it helps you rely more on technique than athleticism when rolling.

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I believe you are drastically overestimating the benefit you are getting from "one or two good lifts"
You're going off of perfectly reasonable logic, and I'm going off of experience. It's possible we have different perspectives of how much energy is expended during jiu jitsu. I like to have a good sweat going ("hot muscles" as you'd say) before lifting, and jiu jitsu class one way to get there. But that's my personal preference, and not everyone may share that.

I'm also assuming the OP is in his 20s, which is perhaps erroneous. If my assumption is correct though, then if I, a 37y/o female, have the energy to lift after class, then I suspect the same should be true for a 20-something male who states that he does not feel taxed after class.

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(especially considering the OP has available TWO DAYS A WEEK. 4 sets a week won't benefit him at all).
Not sure what you mean about 4 sets a week?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the OP's situation. I understood it as he currently lifts two days week. It sounded to me like he is thinking about switching from doing everything in those two days to spreading it out to one or two movements throughout the week after his BJJ classes (i.e. power clean and pullups on Monday, bench on Tuesday, squat on Wednesday, etc).

The whole conversation is probably moot, as OP hasn't responded after his initial post.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:02 PM   #9
Pearse Shields
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
I understood why you and Pearse said this, but I'm taking two things into consideration. First, some of his classes are only an hour long. Unless they're jumping right into competition rolls from the beginning of class, I don't expect someone who is in good shape (including good grappling shape) to be anywhere near wrecked after an hour long class. I'm making the (possibly poor) assumption that at least a quarter of time (if not more) is spent on technique. If my assumption is true, doing a lift session afterwards should be feasible.

The second consideration is that he said that he didn't seem that physically taxed after class. Again, depending on the class structure, he simply may not be exerting that much during class.

I've done an hour and half class (15min warm-up, 45min technique, 30min rolling) and had enough energy for one or two good lifts after.
This is a fair enough point, actually- in fact, I've done a fair few classes that have been technique work and some light drills only. Certainly nothing that would inhibit me from getting a good bit of strength work done. I was at an old club though, where each class was 2 hours long, and each finished with 30-45 minutes of solid, hard rolling. No-gi as well, which I find ups the pace and increases the toll it takes on your fitness compared to rolling in a gi.
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:58 AM   #10
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Who has experimented with doing this?

That's a great point Pearse, I never thought of the pace of gi vs. no gi being a factor.
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