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Old 01-06-2014, 05:55 PM   #11
David Meverden
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Re: Fair male vs female fight?

Fair enough Dakota.

I did look at some powerlifting numbers also. You're right, even accounting for lean mass there is a large discrepancy. Partly this is due to neurological factors (trained men exhibit higher 1RM for the same 5 or 10 RM), and maybe due to some talent pool issues (though at that level that is probably small). I'd be curious to see 5 or 10RM numbers, but I'm sure men would still be stronger, just perhaps by a smaller margin.

You could try to apply a different weight adjustment factor, but it would end up being semi-arbitrary so that whatever gender lost would accuse the level factor of being unfair.

Ah well.
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:41 AM   #12
Pearse Shields
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Re: Fair male vs female fight?

I dunno, I think Cyborg vs JDS would be a pretty fair fight. She is one scary lady.

Might be a little off-topic, but as I recall I believe that in the past Cyborg claimed to not be able to get her weight low enough to fight Rousey on her terms- I wonder what's changed that now she seems confident in being able to do so?
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:06 AM   #13
Kate Head
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Re: Fair male vs female fight?

I think there are a few female fighters out there that can give the boys a run for their money.

Hell we train and spar with men 90% of the time.

I would support male/female fighting. But all I can see is the can of worms it would open up.

Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA already gets the violent wrap add men beating women to the mix and the media would have a field day.

Wish people would take note of the dedication, discipline and respect martial arts can bring to the world.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:53 PM   #14
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Fair male vs female fight?

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Originally Posted by Kate Head View Post
I would support male/female fighting. But all I can see is the can of worms it would open up.
Can of worms, indeed.

Setting aside the question of whether or not females can or should fight with males...you just know that the first time that a woman walks out of the ring all bloody from a fight, the poor guy who did it is just going to get blasted for not having taken it easy on her; i.e. not having treated her as an equal.

But the first time that a female kicks a male's azz, the only thing that will be heard is talk about how this proves physical equality between male and female fighters.

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Old 02-03-2014, 07:11 PM   #15
Dakota Base
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Re: Fair male vs female fight?

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
I'd be curious to see 5 or 10RM numbers, but I'm sure men would still be stronger, just perhaps by a smaller margin.
Not a direct study of this, but I have experience with weight training women that I believe is applicable to this specific component of the topic...

IN GENERAL, the same scaling factors for calculating 1RM based on multi-rep maxes, i.e. 5RM of XXlbs projects a 1RM of YYlbs, apply to both women and men. In other words, women's 5RM is the same % of their 1RM as a man's 5RM is of their 1RM (5RM typically about 86% of 1RM).

To me, this speaks to a marked similarity between maximal strength and endurant strength of women and men. So directly to the question of comparing multi-rep strength of men and women instead of 1RM, it hasn't been my experience that a woman would have a significantly higher 5RM compared to their 1RM than a man would, not even a notably higher proportionality. Some people are 86%, some are 90%, some are 84%, but I haven't experienced that women lifters are higher than men.

And again, my experience in competing against, coaching, training with, etc even high level women over the last 15yrs, the body mass factor just wouldn't work. Specific examples: I wrestled in high school against a 189lb female state qualifier (I went to state at 189 that year weighing around 173lbs). I spent 2013 assisting the training a national level youth Judoka, 160lb 16yr old girl, one of the strongest female fighters I've ever competed with. I also have the pleasure of training regularly with the 2013 IBJJF female Absolute (no weight classes) World Champion - whose husband happened to be the 2012 world champ. Whether it's a big right hand or an armbar, it hasn't been my experience that even grossly heavier female fighters have the same fighting strength remotely proportionate to their lean body mass.

What I think is encouraging, however, for women's combative sports, is that people ask these questions. I can't think of any other sport in which fans have a curiosity about whether it'd be possible. There's no dissention in opinion about who would win between the WNBA national champs and the men's NBA national champs, it'd be a bloodbath. The gap between men and women's counterparts for many sports is so big that the women's competitions hardly qualify as entertaining to fans. Women's combative sports can be every bit as entertaining as the men's, not even incorporating the boorish bias of the sex appeal of women fighters. While it's a shame there aren't nearly as many high level women's fighters around of there as there are of men, but I think that will change in the next few years now that we have adoption of women into the UFC. But high level match ups between women's fighters are as technically impressive and competitively entertaining as any of the high level men's matches, which says a lot for women's combatives competition.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:44 AM   #16
Alex Burden
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Re: Fair male vs female fight?

Big respect to all fighters both men and women.

But never compare them at all at any time and never put 1 of each in the same ring with the same body weight.
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