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Old 06-19-2009, 01:43 PM   #21
Shawn Hansen
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Awesome thread, very good info.

I especially like the part about people in better shape (former athletes, military, etc) being more at risk.

I myself have had a slight case of rhabdo, and i can say beyond a doubt it was MOST unpleasant.

I had been doing crossfit at my gym for about 6 months solid, and had finally gotten to the point where i could just about do the WOD as Rx'd almost every time. People started asking me about my workouts, and after a while the owner of my gym even got into it. They started a few intro classes to see if they could drum up interest. I decided one day to try out the class just for fun.

Here is the thing that got me. I had been doing the CFWU before every WOD, but the people in charge of the class had designed their own warmup, which i didnt know about. So when the warmup started, i picked out weights that would be hard for me, according to my fitness level. You can imagine my surprise when after we were done, they detailed what the WOD was going to be. I nearly crapped myself. I had already hit muscular failure....during the warmup. Im no quitter (xfit has increased my mental toughness 10 fold, and im already a former collegiate level athlete.) so i went ahead with the workout anyway.

The workout was 5 rounds for time of DB thrusters (10), Burpees (10), 400m sprint. I used 45# db's.

I left the gym wanting to die. Woke up the next day feeling like i had the worst case of Flu ever, called in sick to work for the next few days. I was sore to the touch all over my body, i would flinch just getting in and out of bed. It felt like i was hit by a truck. My urine was a dark yellowish/burnt orange. I was contemplating going to emergency after about 3 days of it, then it started to slowly get better.

Its not something i ever want to experience again.

Be careful and pace yourselves...
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:41 PM   #22
Stacy Jennings
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Great Post,
I open my affiliate on September 7th and this information will be shared.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:32 AM   #23
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

#1 Way
Stop giving certifications to people who have have zero education in exercise physiology and strength & conditioning program design. Jason Nunn said it the best.

"There needs to be some sort of accountability for these trainers. Nail technicians and cosmetologists both have to have state licenses to practice their craft. Currently, trainers do not. Iím not trying to belittle anyoneís profession here, but if these two make a mistake, the customerís hair may be a shade off or her nail polish may not match. An uneducated trainer could kill someone!"
- Jason Nunn (writer for Elite Fitness Systems
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:45 PM   #24
Ahmik Jones
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Shaw View Post
#1 Way
Stop giving certifications to people who have have zero education in exercise physiology and strength & conditioning program design. Jason Nunn said it the best.

"There needs to be some sort of accountability for these trainers. Nail technicians and cosmetologists both have to have state licenses to practice their craft. Currently, trainers do not. I’m not trying to belittle anyone’s profession here, but if these two make a mistake, the customer’s hair may be a shade off or her nail polish may not match. An uneducated trainer could kill someone!"
- Jason Nunn (writer for Elite Fitness Systems
Trevor,

That all sounds good, but there big flaws in Mr. Nunn's statements. #1 most formal programs that teach exercise physiology or strength and conditioning have their basis in theories based on anecdotes or worthless poorly designed research with sample sizes in the single digits. Yes, people learn more getting a 4 year degree than in a 2 day seminar, but how much of what they learned in getting that degree is valid or useful? Some formal programs are good, but many are not. 2 days of correct information may be better than years of misinformation.

2nd although your worry that an "uneducated" trainer could kill someone sounds valid, if it were true, then there would be countless deaths or life threatening cases of rhabdomyolysis give the number of people training people in the CrossFit methodology. However, even though the number of people doing CrossFit workouts each day is probably in the 100's of thousands, there are more cases of rhabdomyolysis in a single marathon in a major city than CrossFit gets in a year.

There are 2 reasons that the association of rhabdomyolysis with CrossFit get press, and neither of them has to do with a high likelyhood of CrossFit causing life threatening injuries. 1. The potentcy of CrossFit workouts makes it possible to get exercise induced rhabdomyolysis outside of the typical setting, which is, a long effort on a hot day, often associated with heat injury. However, life threatening cases of rhabdomyolysis are exceedingly rare in the CrossFit setting happening far less than 0.01% of the time. 2. CrossFit is in the practice of being open about issues with the program, which is the best way to ensure that the practitioners are educated and that the potential for issues is minimized.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:20 PM   #25
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Whoa, wait. You honestly believe that a 2 day seminar by an unaccredited organization (that does no pre- screening for applicants other than "do you have 1000 bux" and requires zero science back ground) can actually provide a better fitness education than an accredited collegiate institution with professors who have spent multiple years in the field working as coaches? Or which also provides countless hours of applied principles and experience to their students? If so I cannot be a part of this conversation anymore.

Also, where in the world did you get the idea that the principles put forth by 4 year institutions are anecdotal? Last I checked my NSCA membership came with a monthly peer reviewed research journal. Most exercise physiology programs taught in colleges are based solely on research and not mindless combination or full body exercises just to make you breathe hard.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:52 PM   #26
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Dr. Shaw,
Why would you necropost just to be ...difficult?

Address Dr. Jones points about CrossFit's addressing Rhabdo more than any other resource in common use. It seems that marathons ans standard military PT cause more rhabdo than CF, I've been involved with both and never heard of rhabdo until I started CFing.

CFs results are peer reviewed everyday on the internet. If you don't want a CF certification, don't spend the money. Problem solved. If you don't like the program do something different, that's cool, post about it at NSCS.com. We didn't reach out to you looking for your opinion, we didn't even ask for it. It would be a safe assumption to say that we are as unimpressed by the CSCS cert as you are by CF Level 1.
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Old 10-20-2010, 02:59 AM   #27
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Robert,
I apologize if I came off to harsh in the first post. That was not my intention. And, f I didn't like Crossfit I wouldn't be here, i respect its place in the conditioning world. The point I was trying to make was that Crossfit needs to hold itself to a higher standard then other certifications. It is better than that! To do so it first needs a national accreditation by a recognized licensing board. It also needs to hold its trainers to a higher standard and make sure they have more baseline knowledge before they give a level 1. My point was simply that you will never see a Crossfit Cert as head strength and conditioning coach for a collegiate / professional / olympic team until it provides their trainers with more education. There is simply no way that someone who took a weekend course or even 5 weekend courses could understand the mechanics of teaching and adapting techniques (ex. the snatch and squat) to a newby the same way someone with 4 years of classroom and practical experience could.
I think the trainers and the trainee's both deserve more for their $1000, don't you?
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:33 AM   #28
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Shaw View Post
Robert,
I apologize if I came off to harsh in the first post. That was not my intention. And, f I didn't like Crossfit I wouldn't be here, i respect its place in the conditioning world. The point I was trying to make was that Crossfit needs to hold itself to a higher standard then other certifications. It is better than that! To do so it first needs a national accreditation by a recognized licensing board. It also needs to hold its trainers to a higher standard and make sure they have more baseline knowledge before they give a level 1. My point was simply that you will never see a Crossfit Cert as head strength and conditioning coach for a collegiate / professional / olympic team until it provides their trainers with more education. There is simply no way that someone who took a weekend course or even 5 weekend courses could understand the mechanics of teaching and adapting techniques (ex. the snatch and squat) to a newby the same way someone with 4 years of classroom and practical experience could.
I think the trainers and the trainee's both deserve more for their $1000, don't you?
Maybe. You said that somehow this dearth of educational acumen is causing rhabdo. I'm saying all kinds of fitness pros are involved with marathons and military PT (especially lately) and there's more rhabdo per capita there by a long shot. How do you reconcile that?

I'm not sure about 4 year degrees in exercise. It seems to me that it's just lifting. I mean squatting isn't rocket science and plenty of fitness pros don't teach squats because they find them "too dangerous." I see people with advanced degrees in my profession who are not as competent as me and I question the degree's value except as letters after their name. I think the same applies here.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:32 AM   #29
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Robert,
You just single handedly proved my point. Thank you!
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:43 AM   #30
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Top 10 Ways to Avoid Giving a Client Rhabdo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Shaw View Post
Robert,
You just single handedly proved my point. Thank you!
You're welcome. Please enlighten me as to how I did that. Your point was that somehow CF L1 certifications were producing trainers that were causing rhabdo and I don't see how I helped prove that point at all.
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