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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 07-25-2009, 10:54 PM   #31
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: Structured Skill Development

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Originally Posted by Jacob Tsypkin View Post
I wouldn't take all the time to do this if you weren't putting it in such a public domain, where new and impressionable CrossFitters may, God forbid, think you're right. Please do your research before spewing nonsense.
Oh, man. I missed that one. Internet tough guy act, just like that bit about you not giving a damn what I'm sure of. I'm a soldier who depends on fitness for my job and more. I'm extensively well-read on the topic of exercise physiology and practical application of training techniques. I just happen to think that Coach Glassman's WOD isn't going to get me exactly where I want to be. I don't think that the topic of strength and power-biasing one's training requires such vitriol. New CFers ought to be exposed to the idea that maybe, just maybe, the WOD does not come down from the heavens.
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:41 PM   #32
Jacob Tsypkin
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Re: Structured Skill Development

Forgive me if this post seems out of context, I am typing from my phone and it has trouble quoting posts.

Andrew: if your contention is that someone coming into CrossFit from a background in one of the three modalities, i.e. Weightlifting, gymnastics, or sprinting, has an advantage over someone who has never done any of those things, you are correct. It's the idea that weightlifters have
more of an advantage than sprinters or gymnasts I have an issue with. The reason weightlifting was so crucial to your personal advancement in fitness is that you came into CrossFit as a good runner, but probably had pretty low levels of absolute strength. Some of us are not in that boat; I can move barbells all day, but my 800m time is crap. Would your suggestion be that I continue to focus on barbell lifting? If so, there
is really nothing I can say to you. If, however, you would tell me to focus on my weaknesses while performing constantly varied functional movements at high intensity, you'd be telling me to do CrossFit.

Once again, the idea that we should spend additional time developing capacity in our weaknesses is NOT new. It has been an integral part of CrossFit since the beginning, and to claim otherwise displays nothing but poorly executed research. If your weakness is absolute strength, by all means, bias your training towards it. If, however, you deadlift in the mid to high 400s but your mile is barely sub 7 minutes on a good day...well, increasing the amount of time you spend with a barbell isn't exactly "pursuing headlong those thi gs at which you are weakest," is it?
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:46 PM   #33
Jacob Tsypkin
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Re: Structured Skill Development

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Originally Posted by Andrew H. Meador View Post
Oh, man. I missed that one. Internet tough guy act, just like that bit about you not giving a damn what I'm sure of. I'm a soldier who depends on fitness for my job and more. I'm extensively well-read on the topic of exercise physiology and practical application of training techniques. I just happen to think that Coach Glassman's WOD isn't going to get me exactly where I want to be. I don't think that the topic of strength and power-biasing one's training requires such vitriol. New CFers ought to be exposed to the idea that maybe, just maybe, the WOD does not come down from the heavens.
You're right, the end of that post was uncalled for. I apologize for my rudeness.
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:18 AM   #34
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: Structured Skill Development

We're cool Jacob. No worries here, and I hope you won't harbor any resentment my way. You make a good point about working on our weaknesses. My assertion is simply that for most of us, our weakness is, well, our weakness.

So, anyway, back to structured skill development...
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:51 PM   #35
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Structured Skill Development

Jacob, it's time I ***** slapped you.

A standing back flip is probably as or more simple than a squat snatch.

Both have certain amounts of fear involved. Throwing your *** over your head and not bouncing off it or getting under an assload of weight which like a standing back is probably around bodyweight for many crossfitters.

A standing back is basically a 1/4 to above parallel squat, jump and extend the hips and throw your butt over your head ( by tucking the knees or piking the hips ). Of course there is the HUGE issue of not leaning backwards so far to elongate the trajectory but that is simply about having balls to go straight up.

I can take someone with a good vertical jump and the ability to flex at the hips and truck ( aka leg lift really quickly ) and teach them a standing back much more easier than teaching said before to do a squat snatch. They will have to trust myself as the spotter.

Of course altering the trajectory of a standing back is based on commitment and courage besides aerial awareness, so that like the squat snatch can be complex.

Still, having been trained in both and being only an amateur gymnast or WL at best, a squat snatch is more technical IMO.

While CF'ers should be trying to do more complex gymnastics, the CF gymnastics is pretty much MU, HSPU, free HS ( I rarely see many CFers do freestanding HSPU on ground or parallettes ), front and back lever, perhaps some poorly executed wannabee crosses and perhaps some planche stuff. Some may try to learn standing backs or cartwheels and very rarely will they work any swing skills on rings or bar such as tap swings or uprises or glide kips. I guess they work ring kips which are actually less technical than a glide kip and most are muscled anyways not focusing on straight arms ( for stuff like kip to L/V or cross/planche ).

I still love you Jake even though I had to slap you around there.

Btw, work more HS. It's ok mine are pretty lousy to passing at best.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:51 PM   #36
Jacob Tsypkin
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Re: Structured Skill Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
Jacob, it's time I ***** slapped you.

A standing back flip is probably as or more simple than a squat snatch.

Both have certain amounts of fear involved. Throwing your *** over your head and not bouncing off it or getting under an assload of weight which like a standing back is probably around bodyweight for many crossfitters.

A standing back is basically a 1/4 to above parallel squat, jump and extend the hips and throw your butt over your head ( by tucking the knees or piking the hips ). Of course there is the HUGE issue of not leaning backwards so far to elongate the trajectory but that is simply about having balls to go straight up.

I can take someone with a good vertical jump and the ability to flex at the hips and truck ( aka leg lift really quickly ) and teach them a standing back much more easier than teaching said before to do a squat snatch. They will have to trust myself as the spotter.

Of course altering the trajectory of a standing back is based on commitment and courage besides aerial awareness, so that like the squat snatch can be complex.

Still, having been trained in both and being only an amateur gymnast or WL at best, a squat snatch is more technical IMO.

While CF'ers should be trying to do more complex gymnastics, the CF gymnastics is pretty much MU, HSPU, free HS ( I rarely see many CFers do freestanding HSPU on ground or parallettes ), front and back lever, perhaps some poorly executed wannabee crosses and perhaps some planche stuff. Some may try to learn standing backs or cartwheels and very rarely will they work any swing skills on rings or bar such as tap swings or uprises or glide kips. I guess they work ring kips which are actually less technical than a glide kip and most are muscled anyways not focusing on straight arms ( for stuff like kip to L/V or cross/planche ).

I still love you Jake even though I had to slap you around there.

Btw, work more HS. It's ok mine are pretty lousy to passing at best.
Dammit Blair, now you've got me wondering if I can do one, which means I'm going to have to drive to Marin. Thanks.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:42 PM   #37
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Structured Skill Development

Heheh, so you've learned that my modus operandi is basically to question and start ****.

Isn't there a gym in Monterey called Rising Stars.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:53 PM   #38
Jacob Tsypkin
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Re: Structured Skill Development

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Isn't there a gym in Monterey called Rising Stars.
Yes, but the Marin boys won't charge me haha.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:58 AM   #39
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Structured Skill Development

Whenever you make the trip, let me know so I can watch. No idea if you ever could go there on one of their Sunday day in the parks or if they do another grand opening soon.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:31 AM   #40
Sean J Hunter
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Re: Structured Skill Development

Anyway...

Back on track...

This is what I have been doing for skill development.

Basically I undertake a CF-SB program, during CF-SB lifts yo uare resting for anywhere between 1 - 5 min between the 8-10 lifts that you'd do. (5 warm-ups + 3-5 real lifts before hitting your PB).

So this equals about 15-20min of screw around time.

I have broken the skills from the Portland Goals sheet up into
1. Static Floor
2. Dynamic Floor
3. Ring work
4. Bar work

As I don't have ring sor bars where I am I can only choose from the floor stuff which is entirely Core and Upper Body work.

So...the CF-SB program is
M - DL (skill)
T - BS (skill)
W
T -
F - FS (skill)
S - SP
S

On Mon-Tue-Fri I am incorporating skill work during my rest times during the CF-SB lifts. I have started with the easist skills and am building up to the hardest. I don't do skills on upper body days so as not to encriach on the goal of that workout.

I have attached a excel doc where I have reorganised the Oregan goals list in order of difficulty. Document isnt complete, but you get the idea.

Figure its a great use of wasted time and I don't work the skill to fatigue to ensure that I'm not encroaching on some of my upper body stamina gains etc.

HTH and thoughts welcome.

Cheers

Sean
Attached Files
File Type: email Skills.xls (17.0 KB, 90 views)
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