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Old 11-30-2013, 11:50 AM   #31
Matt Thomas
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

And now you've made the "dangers" abundantly clear. Over and over and over again. Now please go away. It's getting annoying.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:54 AM   #32
Sara Ochsner
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Leaving it, thanks.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:19 PM   #33
Sean Dunston
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Wong View Post
I did not do any wrong on my end that could cause rhabdomyolysis and the hospital already confirmed that with many tests. I am posting an explanation about the possible side effects of consuming At Large Nutrition's Opticen and Results as that was the condition that I was in. Please take it or leave it. Thanks.

Billy
Billy-
I think the issue here is that you have 12 posts on this forum, and they are all in this thread.
Many people who have posted in this thread have been here for years. we have seen cases or rhabdo and/or studied cases of rhabdo over that time frame, and almost every one of them will probably tell you the same thing: most doctors don't even recognize rhabdo when they see it. It might have been a footnote in the materials they studied, but they would not know a case of it when they saw it. Then, when a diagnosis of rhabdo is confirmed, they give you their reason why it happened and it looks something like this:
1) Patient has confirmed case of rhabdo.
2) Patient is on a statin for cholesterol.
3) Literature says that statins increase the risk of rhabdo.
4) Doctor walks to patient and says, "Your statin gave you rhabdo."

Take a look at some of these threads -- all wfs
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=38220
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...ghlight=rhabdo
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...ghlight=rhabdo
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...ghlight=rhabdo
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...ghlight=rhabdo

You will notice several themes from reading them. High rep scheme workouts for an athlete who is not properly conditioned to those types of workouts, and doctors who usually do not diagnose rhabdo correctly, or immediately.

Again - I'm sorry you got rhabdo, but I highly doubt that the dietary supplement(s) you took were a significantly contributing factor to it. It is much more likely that the workout you did, and you not being physically adapted to such a workout at the time you did it, was the proximate cause of your illness.
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Last edited by Sean Dunston; 11-30-2013 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:46 PM   #34
Sean Dunston
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Wong View Post
I was recently admitted into the hospital for 6 days at the beginning of last month due to rhabdomyolysis. I had a staggering level of CPK in my blood, which goes up to 99403 when a normal person can only have a maximum of 200. I was lucky that my kidneys weren't affected (normally people in that condition would have a kidney failure or worse) and only my liver was damaged (liver is a resilient organ). I was a perfectly young healthy person before I chose to start working out alongside with the consumption of ALN's products and their recommended dosage (Nitrean, Opticen & Results). For two days I followed "Jim Stoppani's 12 Week Shortcut To Size" plan on http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/shortcut-to-size.html and a 15 minutes medium to slow phased jog after the workout (NYC pedestrian traffic is terrible). I did the two days' workout very lightly (with the lightest weight or none) as I was practicing my form (my first time working out).
Okay - I went to the website you linked above to look at the workouts you did.
No supplements in the world could save you from the damage that these workouts did to you!

THIS IS WHAT GAVE YOU RHABDO:

Quote:
Terms You'll Need To Know

Rest-Pause: During weeks one and two of each phase of the program, you will do a rest-pause set as the last set of each exercise. To do this, reach muscle failure on the last set, then rack the weight and rest 15 seconds. Then continue the set until you reach muscle failure again.

Warm-up Sets: Perform 1-2 warm-up sets of 12-15 reps on the first exercise for all body parts, except abs and calves. Warm-up sets lubricate the joints, send blood to the working muscle, and prepare your body for a heavier load. After your warm-up sets, dive directly into the working sets below!

Quote:
Day 1:
Barbell Bench Press - Medium Grip
4 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Barbell Incline Bench Press - Medium Grip
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Incline Dumbbell Flyes
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Cable Crossover
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Triceps Pressdown
4 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Lying Triceps Press
Lying Triceps Extension
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Cable Overhead Triceps Extension
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Standing Calf Raises
3 sets of 25-30 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Seated Calf Raise
3 sets of 25-30 reps
Rest-pause on final set
Quote:
Day 2:
One-Arm Dumbbell Row
4 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Wide-Grip Pulldown
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Standing Pulldown
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Straight-Arm Pulldown
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Barbell Curl
4 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Incline Dumbbell Curl
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

One-Arm High Cable Curls
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Rest-pause on final set

Bent-Knee Hip Raise (on a bench)
3 sets of 20-30 reps*
Rest-pause on final set

Crunches
3 sets of 20-30 reps*
Rest-pause on final set

Oblique Crunches
3 sets of 20-30 reps*
Rest-pause on final set

* Shoot for at least 20-30 reps, but if you can do more, continue until reaching failure. If you cannot complete 20 reps, do as many as you can trying to get as close to 20 reps as possible.
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Last edited by Sean Dunston; 11-30-2013 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:48 PM   #35
Brad Allen Jones
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Wong View Post

I am not pursuing an action against At Large Nutrition. I am here to expose the possible side effect of consuming their Opticen and Results products. The posting is an honest, detailed description of what happened, just like other postings that are courteous when the products did good to them.

Aside from being hospitalized for 6 days and having a team of doctors trying to find any possible cause of my rhabdomyolysis, I also did researches online when I was still in the hospital. I asked the doctors every time I found a new information online and none of the informations correlate with my condition.

Billy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Wong View Post
Hi All,

I hit the enter button by mistake before having the chance to write more to it.

I want to ask if any of you have ever encountered a serious issue after using ALN's Results & Opticen?

I was recently admitted into the hospital for 6 days at the beginning of last month due to rhabdomyolysis. I had a staggering level of CPK in my blood, which goes up to 99403 when a normal person can only have a maximum of 200. I was lucky that my kidneys weren't affected (normally people in that condition would have a kidney failure or worse) and only my liver was damaged (liver is a resilient organ). I was a perfectly young healthy person before I chose to start working out alongside with the consumption of ALN's products and their recommended dosage (Nitrean, Opticen & Results). For two days I followed "Jim Stoppani's 12 Week Shortcut To Size" plan on http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/shortcut-to-size.html and a 15 minutes medium to slow phased jog after the workout (NYC pedestrian traffic is terrible). I did the two days' workout very lightly (with the lightest weight or none) as I was practicing my form (my first time working out). At the night of the second work out day and taking the supplements, I felt a stretch on both of my legs that kept on going worse to the point that I wasn't able to walk. Moreover, I didn't do any lower body exercise on the second day. My case was abnormal as I didn't show any of the rhabdomyolysis symptoms (hospital did many tests) except for the muscle stiffness that cause my inability to walk due to immeasurable amount of pain that flooded me whenever I tried to do so (no swelling on both legs). Therefore they asked the NYC Toxic Department for the history of the products per United States Poison Control. The poison control department replied and stated the Opticen as product that contains "conjugated lineolic acid which can induce hepatitis." In other words, consuming a product with that ingredient within it will damage the liver and increases liver enzymes. In the written summery of my discharge, the doctor summarized that the increase of my liver enzymes (through consumption of Opticen) as confirmed by the poison control and usage of product that contains creatine (Results) are the cause of my recent rhabdomyolysis. I was discharged on the 6th day when my CPK level was lowered to a level of 14589. The doctor did so to reduce my hospital bills as I was a recent graduate student (international) who was unemployed and uninsured. The doctor then set me up for an on going therapy at home, which basically was just continuous resting (no normal activities, including walking more than 6 blocks), drinking lots of water and regular blood check ups with an assigned clinic near me. After almost 2 months of resting, my blood test finally came out normal last Wednesday (11/20/2013) and the clinic doctor released me with a caution that from then onwards I have to do everything in moderation as my body is not how it used to be.

If any of you have ever experienced a similar or same problem with Opticen & Results from At Large Nutrition (ALN) please do let me know.
I would greatly appreciate and also willing to give a small reward if any of you are willing to send me a sample of your Opticen (not the new formula) and Results (I will cover the shipping too). Please let me know if you are willing to do so.

I contacted At Large Nutrition (ALN)'s customer service through email with a detailed description of my adverse condition and requested them to cover my hospital bills.
The owner himself contacted me back on 10/29/2013 and stated:

"Billy,

Our RESULTS product contains a dosing of 5g of Creapure(R) creatine monohydrate per serving. That does is considered to be quite safe and unless you have an underlying health issue there is virtually no way it could have caused the condition you have described. I strongly urge you to consult with a physician to see what health concern you may have which caused the issue. Just so you know, CPK levels are not increased by creatine supplementation, they are a marker of muscle or other physical damage. You can read a bit more about it here: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003503.htm

What you are describing sounds like it may have been linked to rhabdomyolysis which is a condition that can be caused by excessive exercise. I assume you train or you would not be using our supplements? In any event, you may want to speak with your physician about that possibility.

Chris Mason"

I basically replied back reexplaining everything again to him and what I have been through, requesting him to cover my hospital bills and I have received no reply since then.
Say again??
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:50 PM   #36
Brad Allen Jones
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Dunston View Post
Okay - I went to the website you linked above to look at the workouts you did.
No supplements in the world could save you from the damage that these workouts did to you!

THIS IS WHAT GAVE YOU RHABDO:
answer wfs

Last edited by Brad Allen Jones; 11-30-2013 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:49 PM   #37
Andy Shirley
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Your workout caused the rhabdo. You should have had health insurance. Ouch.

That being said there are numerous cases of liver failure associated with bad supplements, possibly fake/tainted(google: oxy elite pro liver). Buyer beware. I am in no way saying that Chris or ALN suffers from these issues, but they do exist in the supplement marketplace. And maybe some degree of oversight is warranted.
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:44 PM   #38
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Honestly, Billy...whether or not you are right about your claim, I think you should just call this thread to a halt.

Two reasons:

(a) Through no fault of your own (since you're new here), you simply don't have the credibility on the forum for others to take your word.

(b) There appears to be sufficient reason for us to believe that your workout caused this, not your supplements.

I know you feel that you are doing others a service of some sort by creating this thread, but I seriously doubt that there are many folks who are going to read it, blindly take your word for it, and as a result stay away from ALN products. And I don't think you are going to get any support from anyone here in your objective of having ALN pay for your hospital bills.

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Old 11-30-2013, 04:01 PM   #39
Andrew Bell
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

The fact that you think at-large nutrition is responsible for your problem is ludicrous. This is an isolated case, and you're the only one that it has happened to who is taken those supplements. If this were truly the products fault, there would be more cases of this happening. These supplements, are made an extremely large quantities. They are then bottled up to the size that you purchased. If this were truly an outbreak, you would need many more cases to stand on in order to make these claims. End of story.

The workouts that you posted, are not out of line with those that go through the same things as you did. Take a look at the workouts, not the supplements.

End the witchunt.
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Old 11-30-2013, 07:43 PM   #40
Brian Strump
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Re: At Large Nutrition (ALN) - Results & Opticen

Sometimes I wish I could sit down with people that post on this board, and just talk to them for a minute; and be thankful I have common sense.
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