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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-19-2012, 10:58 PM   #101
Ben Norris
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

I dont know what we are actually argueing about here.

Powerlifters will beat Crossfitters and O" Lifters in the powerlifts
Olympic Lifters will beat Powerlifters and Crossfitters in O" Lifts
Crossfitters will beat Powerlifters and O" Lifters in Crossfit

I mean this is hardly shocking.

I for one would love to see a Grace off between Donnie Thompson, Shankle and Froning or Bailey.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:01 PM   #102
Jacob Tsypkin
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Ben Norris View Post
Powerlifters will beat Crossfitters and O" Lifters in the powerlifts
Olympic Lifters will beat Powerlifters and Crossfitters in O" Lifts
Crossfitters will beat Powerlifters and O" Lifters in Crossfit

I mean this is hardly shocking..
/THREAD
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:09 PM   #103
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

We didnt mean to cause an argument. The guys just wanted to have some fun, and without a big contest coming up soon, it sounded fun to me. And it was fun, lol. Jon threw up twice, and Rob was sore as hell the next day. Only Kevin, who after doing it was almost comatose on the floor, seemed unaffected the next day. We have watched the video between practices and fell over laughing several times.

Hopefully others can take it for what is is, and nothing more. Us just having a bit of fun by trying something different.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:22 PM   #104
Mauricio Leal
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

Well in that case, I will just have to keep replaying Jon North genuinely collapsing into the fetal position and writhing in agony. This is CrossFit!
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:26 PM   #105
Yahya Kohgadai
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

Kevin (dude in the white) coached me for a couple sessions at Cal Strength. He's a good coach and a good lifter.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:41 PM   #106
Chris Mason
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Chris,

I'm curious what rep ranges you use for your RE method work. Do you mostly keep it to isolation-type movements?
Most of the work is in the 8-15 range with the majority of sets being 8-12 reps.

For my upper back I will use primarily compounds. For shoulders compounds and some isolation. For triceps more on the isolation side. For lower body a mix of compounds and isolation.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:53 PM   #107
Chris Mason
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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So this will probably lock the thread for sure but I sifted a few pages back (seriously... this was at 2 pages at lunch) and saw you guys talking about back squat / clean % and I'm curious.

Question for Chris: Rip (I'm getting banned for sure) just posted an article on how Oly lifting is not conducive to building strength but rather allows increases in overall expression of power to a point (hence the fact that some people get some stimulus out of them for a little while when learning them; I did for a time before stagnation set in) and then if you stop strength increases in the big lifts your Oly lifts will eventually stagnate. I believe I've seen Welbourn mention the same thing about how Oly lifts are an expression of power and strength but aren't that great for making you strong. I was wondering as a PL what you thought about all that? I know westside does some power snatching here and there but hardly ever or it's used as assistance maybe? In my own knowledge even if you remove all the drugs that everybody gets accused of taking the Russian and Chinese lifters are still doing a good amount of base strength work to get strong. I know chinese lifters actually do almost full bodybuilding routines and from what I've seen of Russian lifters they're always doing a lot of strength work. Even locally (I know, Canada ain't got crap) when I lifted at my University all the best lifters had come from previous strength or bodybuilding backgrounds while the lifters brought up from a young age in Oly lifting honestly weren't doing that great.

You can PM me if you don't want to hijack the thread... I may have just done that though. What would be really cool is if Glenn could comment on that as well, being an Oly coach whose coaching some great lifters.
O-lifts are great for making you good at O-lifts. That's about it.

Allow me to clarify, they WILL make untrained individuals stronger. They are, after all, resistance training.

With that said, their very nature precludes them from being good developers of absolute strength or muscular hypertrophy. That is why most O-lifters will incorporate the use of front and back squats and other movements into their programs (whether they know it or not).

When I say "their very nature" I am referring to the fact the involved musculature is not under heavy loading for significant portions of the movement (think after the 2nd pull until the concentric squat in both the snatch and clean), there is no real eccentric component, and they rely heavily on momentum and technique which limits the absolute loads that can be used.

As the skill acquired for a given pattern of movement is pretty much specific to that skill they will have little carryover to building skill for any sporting activity other the O-lifting.

In a nutshell, they serve little purpose beyond their given sport.

With that said, O-lifting is a cool sport and one I enjoy watching. The best of the best are great and powerful athletes.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:26 AM   #108
Frances Ballesteros
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

Wtf!!!!
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:08 AM   #109
Eric Trent Miller
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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See, now that is more along the lines of what I would expect from a good O-lifter.
Chris...the lifter we've been discussing (Jon North) did it in 1:39 in the video. They start at :08, and he locks out rep 30 at 1:47.

This is a better time, and he's 20lbs lighter.

At any rate, I'm starting to better understand what you are saying, after reading through this thread. Not sure I am completely sold, but at least I've gone from "wtf" to "oh..I see what you are saying"

Just so I'm clear (and for the benefit of others), you are suggesting that if a top level o-lifter seems to get his a** kicked by Grace @ 135, then that's an indication of them having an unexpectedly low absolute strength, and that their high o-lift numbers are (somewhat) artificially inflated by their advanced technique (in the context of absolute strength).

I can get with this.

You've gotta concede though that the lack of any type of conditioning training in their programming would also contribute to this...no?
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:34 AM   #110
Michael R. Miller
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Eric Shuty View Post
You would lose.

I'll give you another example of max rep strength being a dominating factor even in a conditioning event. When I was in the army we would often go for platoon runs. That is no surprising. When people started to get cocky on those runs I would introduce humbling variables. For example, I had an ultra runner my platoon. He had just completed a 50k in mountainous terrain prior to this example. King ***** of endurance. When I turned the in into a firemans carry run (carrying a buddy on your back) with an individual of similar weight I instantly crushed everyone including him, despite being in the bottom half in my platoon as it pertained to endurance. Why? Because for me carrying a 220lban on my back was a mild discomfort...for them it wa hell. My vastly superior strength made his vastly greater endurance null and void. This is the kind of point that Chris is trying to make...
So what I am not supposed to accept a challenge because I would lose? I got no problem losing it sounds like fun.
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